I know your decision is made and I agree "no" is right (in my humble opinion)

For me there are two main elements if I was considering it 1) Cost - and probably that would end it for me! and 2) Availability - what you going to do at the top of Shap (or almost anywhere else) when you get a stone through the rad or a hose fails (how about including our own little Achilles heel, the metal pipe on the FIRE engine?) Bet it happens late at night and it'll be raining or snowing too! A 2 liter pop bottle full of ready mixed standard antifreeze in the boot always goes with me on long journeys.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

I know your decision is made and I agree "no" is right (in my humble opinion)

For me there are two main elements if I was considering it 1) Cost - and probably that would end it for me! and 2) Availability - what you going to do at the top of Shap (or almost anywhere else) when you get a stone through the rad or a hose fails (how about including our own little Achilles heel, the metal pipe on the FIRE engine?) Bet it happens late at night and it'll be raining or snowing too! A 2 liter pop bottle full of ready mixed standard antifreeze in the boot always goes with me on long journeys.

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Jock, as much as I like your style at times, how many motorists do you actually know that use waterless coolant? This is just a non starter. I understand that some on here want to discuss things to death, but at times certain threads just seem to go on & on for no apparent reason than repeating things just in another way....:bang: Others that deserve a wee bit more input seem to fizzle out.. OK wee rant over...:devil:

jimboy said:

Jock, as much as I like your style at times, how many motorists do you actually know that use waterless coolant? This is just a non starter.

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I'm agreeing with you Jim! I don't know and have never know of anyone who uses it and I really can't imagine ever doing so myself, even if I owned something very special! Ordinary antifreeze, perhaps mixed with distilled or deionised water, does it just fine for me. So if it's overheating you've got a problem you need to sort out not waste large amounts of money on this sort of thing. They even sorted out the Stag in the end didn't they?

g8rpi said:

One thing to note is that waterless coolant is not the same chemical as antifreeze. Waterless coolant is propylene glycol (PG) while antifreeze is ethylene glycol (EG).

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One thing to note is that waterless coolant is antifreeze.

It’s. Like saying coke cola is coke cola and not a drink.

They are extremely closely related both diols and with very similar chemical makeup and properties, the main major difference is one is toxic to animals the other is not. But they are essentially the same glycol coolant already used in the car

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

I'm agreeing with you Jim! I don't know and have never know of anyone who uses it and I really can't imagine ever doing so myself, even if I owned something very special! Ordinary antifreeze, perhaps mixed with distilled or deionised water, does it just fine for me. So if it's overheating you've got a problem you need to sort out not waste large amounts of money on this sort of thing. They even sorted out the Stag in the end didn't they?

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Glad you're not taking my ramblings too personally Jock..

As I've said before forums can be funny places at times. I tend to look at things holistically & I would never get involved in a spat on an open forum with a total stranger, but every now & then you get a wee bit sucked in. As an old git I really should know better, but my wicked, sometimes different sense of humor kicks in & I can't help myself.:devil:

Yes, way off topic now...

I was looking on the tinternet for a homemade recipe for weed killer a while back & was directed to a household forum, mainly women discussing tips & ways of saving money in everyday of household running. Had a quick scan & a post suddenly caught my eye, bottom line two females locked in horns so to speak about a food recipe & what you should & should not do regarding the ingredients of the recipe they were, well arguing about.

Sad git that I was, I followed the thread. They certainly were not holding back. Two middle aged women (at a guess) who were strangers to each other having a real old ding dong on an open forum about something very trivial indeed. Others were adding to the nonsense, but I was transfixed, what's going to happen now I thought as a new page number came up, ach! thread closed.....

I'm going to leave you all with a thought.....

History tells us that churches are at their worst when they are in positions of power and prestige.

Are we in a similar position here with the internet & all that it entails.

AndyRKett said:

One thing to note is that waterless coolant is antifreeze.

It’s. Like saying coke cola is coke cola and not a drink.

They are extremely closely related both diols and with very similar chemical makeup and properties, the main major difference is one is toxic to animals the other is not. But they are essentially the same glycol coolant already used in the car

Click to expand...

No, propylene glycol (PG) s NOT antifreeze. The freezing point of pure ethylene glycol (EG) "antifreeze" is only 12degC, but it lowers the freezing point of water in a 60/40 mix to -52.8degC That IS antifreeze. The freezing point of pure PG is -60degC but 60/40 mix with water is only -48deg, yes it helps but as the mix has a higher freezing point it's not true antifreeze.
Clearly you can't use pure EG as waterless coolant in any situation where the temperature could fall below 12degC. PG also has better overall properties a a heat transfer fluid than EG. As a basic industrial chemical PG is about twice th cost of EG.
It's a bit like saying vodka and coke are both drinks


Robert G8RPI

g8rpi said:

No, propylene glycol (PG) s NOT antifreeze. The freezing point of pure ethylene glycol (EG) "antifreeze" is only 12degC, but it lowers the freezing point of water in a 60/40 mix to -52.8degC That IS antifreeze. The freezing point of pure PG is -60degC but 60/40 mix with water is only -48deg, yes it helps but as the mix has a higher freezing point it's not true antifreeze.
Clearly you can't use pure EG as waterless coolant in any situation where the temperature could fall below 12degC. PG also has better overall properties a a heat transfer fluid than EG. As a basic industrial chemical PG is about twice th cost of EG.
It's a bit like saying vodka and coke are both drinks


Robert G8RPI

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So what you’re saying is, if you add either ethylene glycol or propylene glycol, to water, it lowers the freezing point of water....

That would mean that both by definition are Antifreeze
And if you learn how to look things up you’ll see that both are available sold as “antifreeze”

You seriously need to quit trying to troll me all the time because you look like an utter muppet.

You where right about one thing though it is very much like saying vodka and coke are both drinks, because they are both drinks!! Same that both glycols are both antifreeze....

AndyRKett said:

<SNIP>

You seriously need to quit trying to troll me all the time because you look like an utter muppet.
<SNIP>

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I'm not trying to troll anyone, just refute incorrect statements. You are implying that PG and EG are the same or interchangable, they are not.
No need for insults either.
No one is right all the time but it is the better person who can admit it.


Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

I'm not trying to troll anyone, just refute incorrect statements. You are implying that PG and EG are the same or interchangable, they are not.
No need for insults either.
No one is right all the time but it is the better person who can admit it.


Robert G8RPI.

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You are tying to troll.

They are interchangeable, this is literally a entire thread dedicated asking which of the two someone should use for the same application.

They are the same type of aliphatic chemical compounds.

I did not directly insult you I said because of your behaviour you end up looking like a muppet (in the eyes of other people, I have a far lower opinion of you than that)

No one is right all the time, certainly not you, but I’m not sure you’ve ever been capable of admitting it so I guess by your statement that makes you ‘not the better person’

For example you state that propylene glycol is not an antifreeze when it is

AndyRKett said:

<SNIP>
No one is right all the time, certainly not you, but I’m not sure you’ve ever been capable of admitting it so I guess by your statement that makes you ‘not the better person’
<SNIP>

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See

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/464086-brought-new-car-broken-down.html?p=4368218

G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

See

https://www.fiatforum.com/500-classic/464086-brought-new-car-broken-down.html?p=4368218

G8RPI.

Click to expand...

All that thread proves is you make things up, formulate opions based on no evidence then get caught out..... way to go in proving my point.

jimboy said:

Glad you're not taking my ramblings too personally Jock..

As I've said before forums can be funny places at times. I tend to look at things holistically & I would never get involved in a spat on an open forum with a total stranger, but every now & then you get a wee bit sucked in. As an old git I really should know better, but my wicked, sometimes different sense of humor kicks in & I can't help myself.

Click to expand...

Absolutely no offence taken Jim. I enjoy your posts.

This is the first, and only forum I have contributed to and I see - reference your comments above - how people get "sucked in". I view our forum as an interesting place to be entertained, exchange views and learn specific things I didn't know about my cars (and other things). Sometimes I look at what someone has written and find myself disagreeing but if I can't make a positive contribution I just don't post a reply (I probably would always try to correct advice which I knew to be dangerous though). I have a lifelong passion for cars and mechanical things and love the fact they can't talk back or express opinions. I find the emotional content in my life quite adequately catered for by Mrs J (The love of my life - honestly!) and my, now grown up, children. Thank you

Regards as always
Jock

jimboy said:

Jock, as much as I like your style at times, how many motorists do you actually know that use waterless coolant? This is just a non starter. I understand that some on here want to discuss things to death, but at times certain threads just seem to go on & on for no apparent reason than repeating things just in another way....:bang: Others that deserve a wee bit more input seem to fizzle out.. OK wee rant over...:devil:

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Lol

????? Ok ok calm down everyone lol jeez I only asked if I should use waterless coolant and seem to have started world war 3 on the forum ?????????? remember everyone has different opinions so u may not necessarily be wrong it may not just be for you that's all. I value everyone's opinion and I wouldn't necessarily listen to it without doing my research first. ?��??

One thing I will add is that u can't mix water with waterless coolant is what I thought so in that respect they are totally different, please tell me if I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will lol ???

djechouk said:

One thing I will add is that u can't mix water with waterless coolant is what I thought so in that respect they are totally different, please tell me if I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will lol &#55358;&#56619;&#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;

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If by waterless coolant we mean Propylene Glycol like the Evans product, you can add water to it, e.g. as emergency top-up, but it looses all it's waterless benefits. It becomes like normal water and antifreeze but might not have correct anti corrosion properties so would need to be replaced.

You can get water PG / antifreeze but its normally only used for it's non-toxic properties. PG is a also used as a food additive.


Robert G8RPI.

g8rpi said:

If by waterless coolant we mean Propylene Glycol like the Evans product, you can add water to it, e.g. as emergency top-up, but it looses all it's waterless benefits. It becomes like normal water and antifreeze but might not have correct anti corrosion properties so would need to be replaced.

You can get water PG / antifreeze but its normally only used for it's non-toxic properties. PG is a also used as a food additive.


Robert G8RPI.

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So then that would be pointless lol cos now u making it lose the thing it's supposed to do so I would say they are different and then having to replace it afterwards tells me you shouldn't be adding water to it ever.

g8rpi said:

If by waterless coolant we mean Propylene Glycol like the Evans product, you can add water to it, e.g. as emergency top-up, but it looses all it's waterless benefits. It becomes like normal water and antifreeze but might not have correct anti corrosion properties so would need to be replaced.

You can get water PG / antifreeze but its normally only used for it's non-toxic properties. PG is a also used as a food additive.


Robert G8RPI.

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A food additive yuk that's disgusting

g8rpi said:

If by waterless coolant we mean Propylene Glycol like the Evans product, you can add water to it, e.g. as emergency top-up, but it looses all it's waterless benefits. It becomes like normal water and antifreeze but might not have correct anti corrosion properties so would need to be replaced.

You can get water PG / antifreeze but its normally only used for it's non-toxic properties. PG is a also used as a food additive.


Robert G8RPI.

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I would say this it's basically a rip off and probably not much better than old skool antifreeze, they just make us believe it's worth using in new cars so they can make more money as it's like £50-60 for 5 litres ???? no thanks

djechouk said:

????? Ok ok calm down everyone lol jeez I only asked if I should use waterless coolant and seem to have started world war 3 on the forum ?????????? remember everyone has different opinions so u may not necessarily be wrong it may not just be for you that's all. I value everyone's opinion and I wouldn't necessarily listen to it without doing my research first. ?��??

Click to expand...

One thing you will learn on here dj, certain threads/topics/discussions will be done to death... As I repeat, forums can bring out the worst in people & it becomes more than a hobby for some. That's human nature for you. :devil: