Fiat & Ford Alliance / Fiat and Ford work together?!

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Fiat & Ford Alliance / Fiat and Ford work together?!

Re: Fiat and Ford Alliance

JTD Monkey said:
Ford currently use the PSA (Peugeot Citroen) 'HDi' engines (1.4, 1.6 and 2.0) and re-badge them as TDCi ;)

In the future they might use the m-jet engines but there is nothing wrong with that.

Fiat might use the smaller Yamaha developed Zetec SE engines from the Fester (1.25 and 1.4) in it's smaller cars, which would be no bad thing as they are brilliant motors.

Although they offer similer econ to the Super fire 1.2 (80bhp) and 1.4 (95bhp) they are down on power (in the fiesta it shows as 75bhp on the 1.25 and 80bhp on the 1.4)., so it would probably be a better idea to stick with the Fiat power units as the 1.2 16v to me anyway is better then the ford unit and the 1.4 definetly is more powerful and alot newer.
 
The Negotiator said:
HEre is a question, the engines in the renault traffics/Vauxhall whatever, are they Renault dcis or 'vauxhall' (aka Fiat) jtds? I suppose I could go compare the ccs, will do if nobody knows the answer :)

The Renault Traffic (& Master) / Vauxhall Movano (and the smaller one that I can't remember the name of)/ Nissan Pimastar (or something like that) all use Renault dCi engines either 1.9, 2.2 or 2.8. The 1.9 and 2.2 are engines that are related closely to those used in Renault cars (Laguna, Megane, Espace and Scenic), the 2.8 is an industrial-type unit that is a 'dCi-d' version of the engine that has been under the Master for years!

Scorg said:
Although they offer similer econ to the Super fire 1.2 (80bhp) and 1.4 (95bhp) they are down on power (in the fiesta it shows as 75bhp on the 1.25 and 80bhp on the 1.4)., so it would probably be a better idea to stick with the Fiat power units as the 1.2 16v to me anyway is better then the ford unit and the 1.4 definetly is more powerful and alot newer.

True enough, but I suspect the fact the new Punto has a 1.4 8v engine with 77bhp rather than the 1.2 16v engine with 80bhp means that Fiat wish to stop making the latter (in fact, with the death of the more expensive Mk2.5 Punto's, Fiat will no longer produce the 1.2 16v engine anymore as it won't be in any of the range ;) ). I would guess they are struggling to meet forthcoming Euro 4 emissions and realise it will never get Euro 5 (which is now on the horizon) so the 16v 1242cc Fire is at the limit of it's 'tuneability' and 'driveability'. You could see Fiat were already struggling to make it Euro 3 when it came out of the Punto Mk1 with 86bhp and lost 6bhp (and much character) for the Mk2.

Sure the 1.25 16v Zetec SE is down on power by 5bhp but it is sowing-machine smooth and very, very revvy yet also tractiblen at low revs. The 1.25 is a peach and the 1.4 is pretty nice too! If I was guessing, the 1.4 Zetec SE would be a replacement for the 1.4 8v 'fire' that is going in the Grande, with the 95bhp model (which is a new Euro 4 engine) being above that in the range (y)
 
Re: Fiat and Ford Alliance

JTD Monkey said:
Fiat might use the smaller Yamaha developed Zetec SE engines from the Fester (1.25 and 1.4) in it's smaller cars, which would be no bad thing as they are brilliant motors.

The 1242 Zetec's are brilliant I must say. Very free revvig and good sporty feel to drive(y) I'm pursuaing my boss to let me have a Fiesta WRS that has he 1242 in it as my next car when they take the Focus back later this month:D
 
Fiat are in charge.........



Fiat Auto and Ford Europe are near a deal to build their next minicars at Fiat's plant in Poland starting in 2008, Automotive News Europe reports.

Fiat will build 120,000 units annually of each vehicle in its Tychy assembly plant, 310km south of Warsaw. Fiat's version will replace its Seicento minicar starting in 2008.

The Ford version will replace its Ka entry-level model starting later that year. The two companies are expected to sign the final agreement by the end of October. They signed a memorandum of understanding in late August.

Both vehicles will share a shortened version of the Fiat Panda's platform.

The Panda also is built in Tychy. The two vehicles also will share their entire powertrain and a number of major components, but will have very different body styles.

"It won't be the basic shape with just three different front and rear ends like the Citroen C1, Peugeot 107 and Toyota Aygo minicars," said a source familiar with the project. "Ford will add its own body to the Fiat underpinnings."

Ford's version will hit the market later because Fiat already has started development of its new minicar. To keep the designs different, the two cars won't share any body panels. Even the doors - one of the most expensive body parts - will be specific to each model. The C1, 107 and Aygo share their doors, roof and the entire greenhouse. Technically, the deal won't be a joint venture; it will be a manufacturing contract.

Fiat has similar product-supply agreements with Suzuki and PSA/Peugeot-Citroen. Starting in early 2006, Suzuki will supply Fiat with a version of its new SUV built in Hungary. Fiat will call its version the Sedici. By 2007, Fiat's longtime Turkish partner Turk Otomobil Fabrikasi (Tofas) will supply Citroen and Peugeot with a new light-commercial vehicle, currently dubbed the Minicargo. Fiat will make all the investments, except the parts specific to the Ka replacement, which Ford will pay for. Fiat will recover the research and development and plant tooling investments from the production fees it will charge Ford for the Ka replacements it builds.

Fiat will call its new Polish-built minicar the 500 after its famous predecessor. Between 1957 and 1977, Fiat built 3.9 million units of the 500, the icon of Italian basic transportation. The new Fiat 500 will be a three-door hatchback with four seats and an overall length of 3400mm. The design is derived from the 3+1 concept car unveiled at the 2004 Geneva motor show.

The new Ford will replace the aging Ka, built since 1997 in Valencia, Spain.

The cars will debut offering two, four-cylinder engines from Fiat: a 1.0-litre petrol unit and a 1.3-liter common-rail diesel. Fiat's powertrain subsidiary, Fiat Powertrain Technologies, also is working on a smaller petrol engine, which the two minicars will use by 2010.

Currently under development, this new engine will be a two- or three-cylinder unit with less than 1.0 litre of capacity. Fiat expects CO2 emissions to be less than 100 grams per kilometre. By 2008, European carmakers' average CO2 emissions in Europe should be less than 140g/km, so the small engine would help reduce the corporate average for both automakers.
 
I bet it is more expensive and will still outsell the Fiat equivalent by 10 to 1 in the UK. People are idiots...

Maybe but Fiat will get a cut of each ford car sold so the more the better, this is good news!
 
the fiat should be the trepiuno.. the new 500

img1_3
 
Steve said:
Oh yes, don't get me wrong, this sounds like a fantastic deal for Fiat, but do you see my point? Place a Ford badged Fiat and a Fiat badged Fiat side by side and what will 90% of the UK pick?

Quite, like for example the Vauxhall Agila and Suzuki Wagon R. Identical.
Agila with lower spec and smaller engine some £1500 more expensive than the feature packed Suzuki. Agila sold more.
Insanity.
 
What do the general public know about cars? Not a lot! There are more dealers selling Fords and Vauxhalls than Fiats in the UK (I would assume). So a good dealer is probably fairly local, but for Fiat, a good dealer could be quite a trek.

Good to hear that it will help Fiat. Hopefully the public will hear that the next Ka is really a fiat, and that you can get it as one cheaper with better styling (undoubtedly IMHO as Fiats look better than Fords), and probably still with 0% finance etc...

Now Fiat have to make sure there's a performance version in the UK. See how many Cinq/Sei Sportings were sold... The 1.3 MJTD wiht 90bhp would probably be enough in these days of high fuel costs. And especially if they restrict Ford to the 70bhp version...
 
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