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Old 08-03-2014   #1
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Need help identifying year of FIAT

Hello,

I purchased what I believe is a 1973 (or 1974) FIAT 128 2-door Sedan in wonderful condition but I could be in real trouble if I am incorrect about that model year. It turns out it has been registered as a 1976 although I believe the chassis number confirms it is a 1973 or 1974.

The chassis number is 128A 2096451 and the engine number is 128A 000 2595891. Is there any way that I could be incorrect in thinking it is a 1973 (or 1974)? Can someone confirm that these numbers indicate it is pre-1976? My serious concern is that it really is a 1976 and thus must pass smog in California (where I live). Yet, there is no smog equipment on the car as this is not necessary from where the car is coming, Athens Greece. I have payed for the car and it is on it's already on it's way here to California, due April 12.

The table I used is located here:

http://www.mirafiori.com/id/table128.html

I appreciate any input you have to share in advance.

VFRMike.
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Old 08-03-2014   #2
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

I don't know if ePER would be of any use...?

If it goes back that far -- and you can access it from the blue bar, above -- or covers the States: but I've successfully used it on cars going back to 1986 to find out their details, by entering their VIN number (or whatever its US equivalent is...).

If the version on the Forum doesn't work, typing ePER and FIAT into Google should bring up other ones (e.g. Polish and Italian -- which I've also had success with).

Good luck; and please let us know how you get on.
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Old 08-03-2014   #3
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

here in the UK,
we have a "classic vehicle" scheme= for vehicles MANUFACTURED before ( march..??) 1973


vehicles Registered for the road as late as 1975 can still qualify,
as it's the manufacture (build) date that counts..,

do a little digging and find which criteria you need to fit,

good luck,
charlie
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Old 08-03-2014   #4
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

Another thought. You can see in this chart http://www.international-auto.com/in...m?fa=ad&aid=60 that 1976 serial numbers begin at 1973215 (before mine) and 1977 begins at 2277222 (after mine) and my number 2096451 is clearly between those two numbers. All the serial numbers run in order. It seems that although the 128A chassis type indicates it is a 1971 - 1974, the serial number indicates it is a 1976. I have never seen anything like this before. Is it a 1976 or not?

Mine has all the indicators of a Series-1 FIAT, which were produced pre-1976, such as round head lights, thin front bumper, round turn indicator blinkers on the front fenders, front grill, and some other features. The Series-2 FIAT, which started in 1976 had a significantly different look with rectangular front lights, a very thick front bumper, different turn indicator lights, and some other differences.

Here is a series-1 picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi...am_Ruckert.jpg

Here is a series-2 picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fi...Front-view.JPG

Here is my car: http://www.flickr.com/photos/3721045...7638787594923/

From the pictures you can see that the grill currently shown on mine is different but the original grill is being sent with the car and it is a series-1 grill. But, clearly mine is a Series-1 FIAT.

So, what are your thoughts? Is it a pre-1976?

Thanks!

VFRMike.
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Old 08-03-2014   #5
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

I'm afraid I , and 95% of others on this forum , are too young to know/ remember..,

do the classic 500 people in the US ( Mr. FIAT..??) have access to such info..??,

Charlie
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Old 10-03-2014   #6
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

One thing I'd like to add is that the tables I am using to determine which year the serial number corresponds to is for FIATs sold in the USA and this car was never sold and have never been in the USA. In addition, I was able to locate the spares number, as shown below towards the bottom of the left picture. Maybe this is helpful?

One thing for sure I'd like to interpret on the top of the left picture is the box labled "omologazione" which means "approval". I know the letters DGM stand (loosely) for "Ispettorato Generale della Motorizzazione". However, those numbers 6772 might just be day-month-year or month-day-year of production. This would be what I am looking for as either one of those dates, if I am possibly correct, could correspond to a 1973 FIAT. If you know anything about this DNG number please clue me in.

Thanks!!8
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Old 10-03-2014   #7
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

Hi again,

the Belgian plate is a little odd to me..,

were they actually built/assembled in Belgium,
or possibly a "coachworks" / "carossiere" had a FIAT licenced contract and built "specials" to order..??

that's ONLY a GUESS.. but these things DO happen.,
that could account for the strange mix of build/ assembly/ registration dates..,

the DGM prefix was how all my 1980's Varese-built Italian bikes VIN / Chassis numbers began.. so it sounds correct to me..BUT - the later - 2000 -on bikes dropped this and used a year denoting letter of number 3 for 2003, etc,

are there any specialist forums for your vehicle..??,
as that MAY be the more knowledgable resource,

Charlie
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Old 10-03-2014   #8
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

Thanks Charlie for your insight and efforts. I did some quick checking and have determined that Belgian does refer to Belgium. I'll also do some more looking into the DGM but I am sure hoping it is a build date. All the forums for 128 specialists are in foreign (to me) languages. I have been translating their pages in an effort to gain some insight but I wish I could ask them some questions as they seem very knowledgeable.

Well, I hope I am able to get to the bottom of this and appreciate yours and others assistance.

Mike.
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Old 11-03-2014   #9
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

You'll often find that a post in English will be acceptable (everyone else expects anglos to be linguistically incompetent!).

The though occurs that FIAT themselves will hold the information -- just a matter of getting hold of the right person/department. The museum maybe?
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Old 11-03-2014   #10
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

Write to Fiat UK - they are pretty helpful when it comes to dating cars.

My guess will be pre 76 but with possible confusin from being assembled in Belgium judging by the second plate. However it would be CKD with numbering in the general run.
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Old 11-03-2014   #11
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

Quote Originally Posted by dragonwagon View Post
Write to Fiat UK - they are pretty helpful when it comes to dating cars.

My guess will be pre 76 but with possible confusin from being assembled in Belgium judging by the second plate. However it would be CKD with numbering in the general run.

OK.. so the 1st 3 letter characters denote country of build/ assembly..,
that's a great start..,
certainly down as Italy then.. BUT is that just registered "Headquarters"
NOT necessarily the location of assembly plant,


as @fingers suggests ,

maybe try a post in English on a non-english website,

Most europeans get by in a second language.. it's just us..!!

FYI "belgium" is a dual language country;

Francophones - French speaking part (FR)

Walloons - Dutch speaking part ( NL) "Flemish"

your label's address is VERY FRENCH..!!,

but you'll notice the engine No., etc are described in both FR and NL..,
NO ITALIAN..!!

Charlie
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Last edited by varesecrazy; 11-03-2014 at 14:33.
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Old 16-03-2014   #12
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

Well, embarrassingly enough, it appears I was incorrect about what year the registration/title will read. I would have sworn I was told that it was registered as a 76, but it is/was registered correctly (in Greece) as a 1973. The registration/title (they are not separate documents in Greece) will show the car as the 1973 that it is. However, according to it's chassis number, using tables for cars built in the USA, it does fall into the 1976 range- strange, I know. Only thing I can think of is that it was built in Belgium and this has something to do with it or that it was a special order in 1976 as a 1973. So, if the registration/title as well as the bill of sale both indicate 1973 and all the numbers (chassis, chassis type, etc) on these documents match all the tags on the car (there are 2 tags on the car) then should I be okay for registering in California? That is, is there really a chance that they could try to match the chassis number with something they'd find online or in their own records? I cannot imagine they'd have records dating back to 1973, or would even want to check for that matter, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks for your input!!

VFRMike.
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Old 18-03-2014   #13
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

Hi,
( from my dirtbiking past)


US guys who register used bikes.. avoid the city center DMV's, for lil' ol' lady - run outfits out in the sticks,
as long as your paperwork is in order you will be good to go..,


best of luck,
Charlie
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Old 19-03-2014   #14
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

Thanks Charlie,

You know it's a bit odd for me to admit that I have a tremendous bond with this car that I've never driven. Very odd indeed and all the work that's transpired in order to actually receive this car has made me want this car even more. Yes, all the paperwork is in order. I just hope, and cannot imagine, that the DMV would attempt to look up a chassis number. I guess as long as it's registered as a 1973 on everything (title/registration/bill of sale) with all tags on the car matching all the papers then I should be fine. Once I am handed those tags it will be a wonderful moment!

Mike.
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Old 19-03-2014   #15
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Re: Need help identifying year of FIAT

no problem,
if every item you submit says 1973, why would they assume a different year,


looking forward to YOUR pics of it now..!!


Charlie
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