Hi fellow fiat fans,Just read about BMW's new 2 litre 4 cyc engine.
It has twin turbos,245bhp,149g/km and 350nm torque.
Fiat has there little multiair 1.4,but they seriously need to start making good 2 litre engines like BMW,for their midsize new cars with low emmisions.
They also need to develop a 1.6 litre twin turbo for the mainstream next generation punto,the 1.4s are just too weak an engine.

I'm not looking to pay a BMW price for my next new Fiat...

TONY55S said:

Hi fellow fiat fans,Just read about BMW's new 2 litre 4 cyc engine.
It has twin turbos,245bhp,149g/km and 350nm torque.
Fiat has there little multiair 1.4,but they seriously need to start making good 2 litre engines like BMW,for their midsize new cars with low emmisions.
They also need to develop a 1.6 litre twin turbo for the mainstream next generation punto,the 1.4s are just too weak an engine.

Click to expand...

Right, so that's that sorted then. The best minds in FIAT and the ones who set R&D budgets must all change their plans, simply because one man thinks that their 1.4 isn't good enough.

ALSO, you get industry leaders and followers. BMW, VW and Merc have been toe-to-toe since the race for maximum power with minimum emmisions really got into swing. FIAT seem to take things slower, and go their own way. TwinAir is an example of this, or is this not up to Your Majesties standards either?

TONY55S said:

Hi fellow fiat fans,Just read about BMW's new 2 litre 4 cyc engine.
It has twin turbos,245bhp,149g/km and 350nm torque.
Fiat has there little multiair 1.4,but they seriously need to start making good 2 litre engines like BMW,for their midsize new cars with low emmisions.
They also need to develop a 1.6 litre twin turbo for the mainstream next generation punto,the 1.4s are just too weak an engine.

Click to expand...

Key Facts

Model driven: Alfa Romeo Giulietta 1750 TBi Cloverleaf
Pricing: £25,010 (as at April 2011)
Engine: 1.7-litre turbocharged four-cylinder petrol
Transmission: six-speed manual, front-wheel drive
Body style: five-door hot hatch
Rivals: Mazda3 MPS, SEAT Leon Cupra R, Volkswagen Golf GTI
CO2 emissions: 177g/km
Combined economy: 37.2mpg
Top speed: 150mph
0-62mph: 6.8 seconds
Power: 235bhp at 5,500rpm =340Nm
Torque: 251lb.ft at 1,900rpm


http://www.carenthusiast.com/review...lfa+Romeo-Giulietta+Cloverleaf/Road+test.html

erm fiat have a 1.9 twin turbo Mjet on the new lancia, alfa, will be in some form of bravo and a few sabbs, not far off the 2.0l one BMW have, just sayn

TONY55S said:

Hi fellow fiat fans,Just read about BMW's new 2 litre 4 cyc engine.
It has twin turbos,245bhp,149g/km and 350nm torque.
Fiat has there little multiair 1.4,but they seriously need to start making good 2 litre engines like BMW,for their midsize new cars with low emmisions.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure that 245bhp from 2 litres squares up that well with last generation Toyota engines, let alone the venerable FIAT twin cam in 16v turbo trim.............

Maybe it's better on emissions, but really..................

Fiat and BMW operate in different market sectors so have differing needs from an engine. For the bulk of Fiats high MPG / low emissions will be the prime requirement rather than power especially going forward as fuel gets ever more expensive.

TONY55S said:

Hi fellow fiat fans,Just read about BMW's new 2 litre 4 cyc engine.
It has twin turbos,245bhp,149g/km and 350nm torque.
Fiat has there little multiair 1.4,but they seriously need to start making good 2 litre engines like BMW,for their midsize new cars with low emmisions.
They also need to develop a 1.6 litre twin turbo for the mainstream next generation punto,the 1.4s are just too weak an engine.

Click to expand...

Of course, silly old Fiat. And I hadn't noticed my 1.4 with 180bhp being particularly weak either, so silly old me too........

I think you'll find Fiat are well ahead of the game engine wise, with all the others struggling to catch up. Here's a snippet from green car guide.com to illustrate how poorly Fiat are doing with their engines

"The Fiat brand and Fiat Group recorded Europe’s lowest volume weighted CO2 emissions, with Fiat Automobiles logging a CO2 average of just 123.1 g/km (4.7 g/km less than the 2009 average).

This placed it top of all brands for the fourth year running, and well ahead of the European target of 130 g/km, due to be met in 2015.

Fiat also ranked first among the motor groups with 125.9 g/km, an improvement of 5 g/km on last year. The figure takes into account all Fiat’s brands, including the Ferrari supercars and Maserati’s high performance luxury vehicles.

Fiat claims that this is the result of implementing technological solutions aimed at containing consumption and emissions, as well as raising the awareness of motorists for a more environmentally responsible use of their cars.

Fiat’s initiatives include MultiAir, MultiJet and TwinAir engines, along with alternative fuels (CNG Natural Power and LPG Easy Power), Start&Stop; electronic gearshift management (Dualogic robotised transmission), electronic traction management (Traction Plus) and Fiat’s ecorive, the in-car software which analyses driver behaviour and suggests ways to improve it.

The figures are from JATO Dynamics, the world's leading automotive consultancy and research firm."

I dont think the OP realizes that FIAT are known mainly for there small engined small cars.
and as such why would they bother trying to hard for anything other then what they are known best for doing

also is fiat is just one part of the company... they can leave the big stuff to their other names such as Alfa, Lancia, Ferrari

cainy1989 said:

erm fiat have a 1.9 twin turbo Mjet on the new lancia, alfa, will be in some form of bravo and a few sabbs, not far off the 2.0l one BMW have, just sayn

Click to expand...

The main difference being that the BMW engines don't have issues with EGR valves, swirl valves, inlet manifolds and DMFs failing at alarming low mileages like the FIAT 1.9D does

Gaz37 said:

The main difference being that the BMW engines don't have issues with EGR valves, swirl valves, inlet manifolds and DMFs failing at alarming low mileages like the FIAT 1.9D does

Click to expand...

You might like to read PPC for an alternative view on the greatness of the BMW oil burners...........

fingers99 said:

You might like to read PPC for an alternative view on the greatness of the BMW oil burners...........

Click to expand...

I'm not saying the Bms are faultless but general opinion on the FIAT 1.9tid is that it's a disaster in SAAB applications.

Maybe SAAB aren't bolting them in properly after all SAAB don't have the reputation for quality engineering that FIAT do

I was having a conversation with a mate the other day based around this. I do agree that Fiat are well known for thier small efficien engines and for having alot of passion that some modern cars lack. (VW golfs, Peugeots and the like). Some people may not enjoy the styling but there are alot people who really do, hence Fiat Forum being one of the biggest automobile forum on the internet.

Fair point OP, Your views are valid but your walking into a synagog in a hitler costume on this one

Welcome to the forum though

Cheers
Tom

.

The results of the 2011 International Engine of the Year Awards have been announced.

Fiat’s 875cc two-cylinder TwinAir was voted the greatest engine available today. It also won ‘Best New Engine’, ‘Best Sub 1-litre’ and ‘Best Green Engine’ Categories. Dean Slavnich, editor of Engine Technology International and co-chairman of the International Engine of the Year Awards, says: ‘Fiat has now produced one of the all-time great engines. Who would have thought that a two-cylinder unit could have won the International Engine of the Year title when we launched the Awards in 1999?’

Ferrari’s 562bhp, 4.5-litre V8 from the 458 Italia scooped ‘Best Performance Engine’ and the ‘Above 4-litre’ category.

BMW, always a strong contender in the competition, won four categories. ‘3-litre to 4-litre’ with the M3’s 4-litre V8, the ‘2.5 to 3-litre’ with its direct-injection twin-turbo fitted across much of the range (including the new 1-Series M Coupe), the ‘1.8-litre to 2.0-litre’ category with its 2-litre twin-turbodiesel that powers the 123d and X1 and the ‘1.4 to 1.8-litre’ category, with its 1.6-litre four-cylinder petrol turbo engine which it co-developed with PSA Peugeot Citroen, with whom it shared the award.

Volkswagen’s 1.4-litre TSI Twincharger engine (Polo GTI, Fabia vRS, Ibiza Cupra), outright winner in 2009 and 2010, retained its crown in the ‘1-litre to 1.4-litre’ category.

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i dont care what anyone says my little 1.2 8v FIRE engine which is ancient by todays standards can take beating after beating and still do what it's supposed to do

that for me is what fiat is all about comparing them to BMW is like comparing your girl friend and your mates mum

no matter how much of a milf she is your allways gonna wanner bang your girlfriend more

jip0 said:

....that for me is what fiat is all about comparing them to BMW is like comparing your girl friend and your mates mum

no matter how much of a milf she is your allways gonna wanner bang your girlfriend more

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LOL. Too true. 2.0 engines really don't fit into most of Fiat's range. It's Alfa they should be developing them for :yum: .

And Fiat are forerunners in engine development and have been for years.

And you blow BMW's trumpet regarding that engine yet they are VERY new to turbo petrol engines and have a lot to learn they even admit it themselves

Gets on my nerve's when people say how great VW are twin charging an engine. Was Lancia's brilliant idea but when put people right they just stare at you blankly

Fiat put Euro 5 engines in the 500, years ahead of regulations. Cant really fault their technology

Gaz37 said:

I'm not saying the Bms are faultless but general opinion on the FIAT 1.9tid is that it's a disaster in SAAB applications.

Maybe SAAB aren't bolting them in properly after all SAAB don't have the reputation for quality engineering that FIAT do

Click to expand...

I think you'll find they're probably using the GM version of Fiat's 1.9 mjet. Fiat's version doesn't use swirl valves.

Every car used mainly for town use (and driven gently for maximum MPG) will suffer EGR issues. Fiat tends to produce cars for the smaller segments, whereas BMW's tend to be motorway-munchers and don't spend anywhere near as long idling or in stop/start situations which promote heavy EGR useage.

Besides- Fiat don't make the EGR valves and DMF's used with their engines.

Gaz37 said:

I'm not saying the Bms are faultless but general opinion on the FIAT 1.9tid is that it's a disaster in SAAB applications.

Maybe SAAB aren't bolting them in properly after all SAAB don't have the reputation for quality engineering that FIAT do

Click to expand...

D4nny8oy said:

I think you'll find they're probably using the GM version of Fiat's 1.9 mjet. Fiat's version doesn't use swirl valves.

Click to expand...

Oh ok, the same SAAB* (Swedish And Almost Bankrupt? :devil that was disowned by a technically bankrupt GM, and is unable to pay its workers or suppliers?

The Chinese are currently trying to bail it out, so maybe they can work out how to fit it properly or at least pay for the right parts ?