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View Poll Results: Are Fiat doing the right thing trying to buy GM Europe?
Yes, it'll be good for Fiat 5 31.25%
Yes, it'll be good for GM Europe 0 0%
Yes, it'll be good for the workers 0 0%
Yes, it'll be good for the European car industry 4 25.00%
Yes, it'll be good for their customers 2 12.50%
No, it's a huge blunder 8 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 28-05-2009   #1
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Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

With the possibility that Fiat will shortly own both a big chunk of Chrysler and GM Europe, let me ask the question, are they doing the right thing?

Opinions welcome...
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Old 28-05-2009   #2
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

I don't think Fiat will get it, I think Magna will.

Fiat would like the large (Insignia) and medium (Astra) floorpans, but apart from that I don't know what else GM Europe has? Fiat has the best engines. And, given that whatever happens anything other than minimum plant closure is politically undesirable, I see GME as a poisoned chalice. The two groups cover much of the same model areas and are in competition. I know there are already synergies, but given that the world market for cars looks to be shrinking structurally I just don't see the point of combining, other than that perhaps Opel might cover northern Europe and Fiat has the south, and a union could form a sort of dual empire. But why? However, whoever has control has the ultimate power, and Magna has access to Russian money and production facilities. Either way I don't see a good future for all the GME, or even Fiat, factories. Even before this economic meltdown the world auto industry was producing too many cars to achieve decent profit, and I'd like to know how either buyer can alter this structural reality - as I see it.

Perhaps Fiat sees GME as a springboard to models readily desirable in the US; but they don't much like the Astra (Saturn), even if it has gone over there with the wrong engine.

I just hope Fiat can get its new engines and models out quickly, and bring successful cars to market in the US. Fiat will do increasingly well in Europe and its other established markets..
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Last edited by Ulpian; 28-05-2009 at 21:21.
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Old 28-05-2009   #3
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

Fiat has the Insignia floorpan doesn't it? Croma...

Why would they want the Astra floorpan... they have the Bravo/Alfa 159.
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Old 28-05-2009   #4
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

The Insignia is a new floorpan. The Croma is on the old Signum. The forthcoming Astra also has a greatly modified floorpan which is supposedly good. However, I agree, the lengthened Bravo chassis does well enough for the Lancia Delta, and there must be a Chrysler floorpan for the new big Alfa, which seems to be what Fiat wants badly. Apparently 75% of the cost of a new car comes from the basic structure, which is why there is so much sharing - GP/Corsa/Qubo/Nippa etc., and all the others...
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Old 28-05-2009   #5
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

I really struggle to see what Fiat would gain that's actually worth gaining. Yes Vauxhall sells better than Fiat in the UK, but that's more based on past reputation rather than any shortcoming of Fiat nowadays.

Okay Fiat don't do so well in the Bravo/Croma market, but Vauxhalls offerings are hardly outstanding either. I think Fiat should stick to Chrysler & work on continuing their own product development without worrying about GMs problems.
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Old 30-05-2009   #6
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Cool Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

I dont go for the politics of what is happening and the why's and where for's but I dont think the yanks will let fiat have they way for a second time..

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/chr...xecutive-fiat/
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Last edited by PNL; 30-05-2009 at 10:10.
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Old 30-05-2009   #7
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

Fiat pulled out yesterday anyway. It looks like Magna now, with German government backing. GM goes into Chapter eleven on Monday, probably, and GME needs to be detached before then or the American creditors will want to flog it in a fire sale.

By the time today is over I would expect the Magna/Opel deal to be pretty much done.

I'd not expect both British factories to be there in twelve months though.
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Old 30-05-2009   #8
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

They'd gain that 1.6 turbo engine would'nt they? The one they gave away as a sweetner?
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Old 30-05-2009   #9
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

Did they, I wasn't aware of that?

I suppose the new Fiat direct injection 1.8 is considered pretty good. 200bhp (in the new Delta), massive torque, 0-60 in 7.6 (automatic) and 36 mpg mixed. Give it Multiair and it'll really be something else, and it will give up to 230 bhp too.

In fact by next year Fiat will have an astonishingly good engine range, but yes, no 1.6. I guess the 1.4s will have to bridge it.

I think taking on Opel would have given Fiat indigestion, and Chrysler will be enough to be going on with. No government wants to see redundancies, but in order for any restructuring to succeed this will have to happen, and it will get nasty out there. Fiat/Alfa/Lancia will soon have a very interesting and desirable range of cars. Next year I think fuel prices will rocket again and this will help them greatly as well.
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Old 30-05-2009   #10
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

Thinking about this long and hard, I think its best Fiat dont get involved.
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Old 31-05-2009   #11
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

I think FIAT should buy Porsche instead................
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Old 31-05-2009   #12
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

Quote Originally Posted by fingers99 View Post
I think FIAT should buy Porsche instead................
...and stick a flat 6 turbo in a re-revival of the Seicento

But seriously, other than being one step closer to world domination I see nothing really good in Fiat taking over Vauxhall/Opel. Fiat has everything but the best reputation and even that's improving. Either that or the other makes are screwing up - electrics in newer cars really suck, no matter who made them.
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Old 31-05-2009   #13
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Cool Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

Quote Originally Posted by T14086 View Post
Thinking about this long and hard, I think its best Fiat dont get involved.
They could do with your reasoning at fiat you need to relocate to Italy instead of scotland..nice and warm there for the wife and kids and you wouldnt need under trays to cover holes in the roof..
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Old 31-05-2009   #14
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

The Croma is on the old Signum.I really struggle to see what Fiat would gain that's actually worth gaining.but I dont think the yanks will let fiat have they way for a second time..
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Old 31-05-2009   #15
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Re: Should Fiat buy Opel/Vauxhall?

Quote Originally Posted by PNL View Post
They could do with your reasoning at fiat you need to relocate to Italy instead of scotland
They couldn't afford me!
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