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Old 05-05-2009   #16
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Re: Fiat to buy Vauxhall and Opel?

Quote Originally Posted by Ffoxy View Post
Thats a really good point Hellcat, Fiat have done a top dollar job on putting that demon to bed... in total contrast to what Lancia did.
Lancia as a brand, made executive cars, an image like this is easier to lose than it is to regain, shame really as the Lancias are nice! As opposed to Fiat which was seen as a cheap and cheerful cars, and can suffer a slight drop in sales.

Quote Originally Posted by Ulpian View Post
Fiat has been careful to design innovative and affordable cars and, since the thorough approach to rustproofing put in place in the 90s, they have put their one big demon to bed.
the tipo was released in 1988 and featured extensive galvanisation, why it weighs a lot more than other cars at the same time. so the rustproofing began in the late 80's.

vauxhall stands to gain (though i'd imagine it'll get abolished and become just opel) they might actually learn to stick a steering wheel in front of the driver, and not off to the side

vauxhall/opel does directly compete with FIAT so it's a bit of an odd thing for them to take them over, but then FIAT only really competes with the corsa, which uses the same chasis as the gp. (other than bravo (vs. Astra) but that isn't as common over here) be interesting to see what happens, imagine vauxhalls would continue as they are pretty much, but tend to focus on the larger family cars/mpvs. hmmmm....
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Old 05-05-2009   #17
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Re: Fiat to buy Vauxhall and Opel?

[QUOTE=Ulpian;2060933]Thing is, the Croma platform is a Signum, and seems to carry a number of the inherent faults. It simply isn't good enough.

QUOTE]

talking with my local dealer they said the gm based 2.2jts and 3.2v6 in the alfa's are terrible engines and they have nothing but trouble with any vauxhall parts that are fitted to fiats
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Old 05-05-2009   #18
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Re: Fiat to buy Vauxhall and Opel?

maybe it's because I'm farther from Europe, but I just don't see what FIAT needs with opel/vauxhall. I don't see the benefit. The Chrysler deal I could see, because it gave FIAT access to a large new market and the price was essentially free. But even if Opel/Vauxhall were free as well, could they do for FIAT?

A month ago I thought that the rumors of deals with GM brands was just smoke to give them more bargaining power in the Chrysler deal. But here we are, chrysler deal done, still talking about it.


As I see it, FIAT:
  • doesn't need extra manufacturing capacity
  • doesn't need the opel/vauxhall dealer distribution network
  • doesn't need the opel/vauxhall name plates (they just got 3 for free)
  • doesn't need any opel/vauxhall technology
  • doesn't need to look like the bad guy buying up competition just to properly kill them off
am I wrong about this? is there anything I'm missing? Feel free to set me straight, I'm american, I currently have very little exposure to FIAT or Opel cars. Any of the brands' surrounding 'car culture' that I've heard about comes entirely from jokes on old top gear reruns. Is there an obvious benefit to FIAT that I'm just too stupid to see?
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Last edited by Reaperman; 05-05-2009 at 22:12.
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Old 05-05-2009   #19
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Re: Fiat to buy Vauxhall and Opel?

Hmm, a question I'd love to know the answer to:

There's a downturn in car markets, a recession - as it were, how come virtually every car manufacturer seems to be struggling, yet FIAT can afford to buy out Chrysler in the USA and Opel-Vauxhall in the EU and the UK?

Surely this will be putting money strains under pressure for Fiat having to pay for investment in these companies and thus being parent company, having to invest money into them forever...
Just where did all their money come from?

It might be that everyone is buying Fiats during the recession due to the fact they're cheap to run and very economical and so Fiat are gaining more customers and the other brands are losing out, therefore Fiat make more profits?

Although I'd of thought there would have been more to it than that?
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Old 05-05-2009   #20
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Re: Fiat to buy Vauxhall and Opel?

Is there an obvious benefit to FIAT that I'm just too stupid to see?[/quote]

From what i read in the papers in the uk, the main thing Chrysler need is the know how to build smaller economical cars. Something that Fiat is very good at!! look how many Panda's, Punto's etc they sell!!
Which i imagine would maybe help Chrysler steal sales away from the japanese rival's such as Honda, Toyota etc, and help them to develop models to compete against Ford as well.
As for Fiat it could be there golden opertunity perhaps, to start selling in the USA which they haven't done for a hell of a long time!!
Not since the mk1 Strada or Rimito as it was marketed i believe!! so a return could include Alfa and Lancia?
As for Vauxhall/Opel, lets not forget the Grande Punto is a result of platform sharing between GM and Fiat!! The Vauxhall/Opel effort being the Corsa D.
So for fiat it could also be a cost cutting excersise in development costs etc..

That just my theory on it anyway!!

Jesus i need to get out more!! lol
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Old 05-05-2009   #21
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Re: Fiat to buy Vauxhall and Opel?

Quote Originally Posted by PuntoSS View Post
Hmm, a question I'd love to know the answer to:

There's a downturn in car markets, a recession - as it were, how come virtually every car manufacturer seems to be struggling, yet FIAT can afford to buy out Chrysler in the USA and Opel-Vauxhall in the EU and the UK?

Surely this will be putting money strains under pressure for Fiat having to pay for investment in these companies and thus being parent company, having to invest money into them forever...
Just where did all their money come from?

It might be that everyone is buying Fiats during the recession due to the fact they're cheap to run and very economical and so Fiat are gaining more customers and the other brands are losing out, therefore Fiat make more profits?

Although I'd of thought there would have been more to it than that?
I believe Fiat still owes alot of money from its years of struggling, but both the Chrysler & Vauxhall/Opel deals are supported by Government loans, which is why it's possible for Fiat to consider it.

Personally i think it's very daft and i think Fiat are trying to prove a point which will be their un-doing.

Chrysler i can understand, but what do they need from Vauxhall/Opel? Fiats cars are already more stylish, as reliable, as safe and more pioneering.

Plus, some of Vauxhalls best engines are Fiat units (think 1.3 'CDTI') and some of Fiat/Alfas worst engines are GM units, so its not like Fiat need any engine know-how.

All of Fiats small cars are decent selling (like how many Agila models do you see on the roads compared to Pandas & 500s? Not alot)

The Punto is a consistent strong seller, even in the UK where Fiat has struggled at times.

Fiats MPV ranges seem to do fairly well, the Doblo seems to still be selling well now, and that was launched in 2001. The only reason the Multipla didnt do better was its unusual looks, not because of any engineering mistakes.

The only cars of Fiats that dont sell as well as they ought to are the Bravo & Croma sized cars. And i think thats more to do with reputation rather than anything that a merger with Opel can put right.

Besides, if Fiat actually bothered to advertise the Bravo & Croma it would be a start to more sales, rather than messing about turning a Bravo into an Astra.
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Old 06-05-2009   #22
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Re: Fiat to buy Vauxhall and Opel?

The one big thing Fiat will gain by acquiring Opel is around 2 million more sales per year. Included in that is better access to Northern European markets where Opel & Vauxhall are stronger than Fiat. Consolidation will allow them to make and sell those extra 2 million cars for less than Opel currently spend.

So more cars sold, for less money spent.

Don't ask "what will Fiat cars gain from the deal?", but "What will FIAT S.p.A gain?"
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Old 06-05-2009   #23
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Re: Fiat to buy Vauxhall and Opel?

Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
The one big thing Fiat will gain by acquiring Opel is around 2 million more sales per year. Included in that is better access to Northern European markets where Opel & Vauxhall are stronger than Fiat. Consolidation will allow them to make and sell those extra 2 million cars for less than Opel currently spend.

So more cars sold, for less money spent.

Don't ask "what will Fiat cars gain from the deal?", but "What will FIAT S.p.A gain?"
I suppose that makes sense--I really didn't know that FIAT's brands weren't as strong as they could be in northern europe. Of course it's not surprising that I was clueless, given that all my info about europe's car markets comes from an assortment of UK TV shows
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