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Old 01-05-2009   #16
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

It just seems to have been around for ages.

I see more and more new Fiestas, and already the shape is looking very fussy and ordinary. They simply reveal the design quality of the GP: I hope the revision doesn't mess it up.

I wonder though if a Bravo and a GP don't cover the same ground?
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Old 01-05-2009   #17
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Quote Originally Posted by Ulpian View Post
I wonder though if a Bravo and a GP don't cover the same ground?
In what way? The front is very much the same, the bonnet etc.
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Old 01-05-2009   #18
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Bravo and GP are totally different markets. You only need to sit in one to realise that.

One hurdle to overcome is how to get a highly tuned italian stallion to feed off american premium 93ron and not go crazy....
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Old 01-05-2009   #19
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Quote Originally Posted by Hellcat View Post

One hurdle to overcome is how to get a highly tuned italian stallion to feed off american premium 93ron and not go crazy....
I remember asking the same question when Jim took the 500 stateside. Apparently American petrol is marked in a different way to ours.

Quote Originally Posted by dougl65 View Post
American Octane numbers and ours are different. There is a converter here:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/octaneratecalc.html

95 octane in Europe is 89 in the states

Or maybe this post from another froum might help (although slightly contradictory):

US 91 octane (RON+MON/2) is the same as EU 95 octane (RON). Use the 91 octane for best performance. Note the EU 95 RON is the lowest we get here in the UK, hence the usual advice in the EU is to use the cheapest available - this doesn't apply in the US.

Doesn't Chrysler have a funky new V6 on the way?
Might see a technical move from America to Europe I seem to recall thinking it might sit nicely in a GTA engine bay after some Alfa fettling.
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Old 01-05-2009   #20
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

In some ways the GP and the Bravo do cover the same ground. 4/5 seater hatchbacks. If you were tooling up for production in a new country, which has an aversion to hatchbacks anyway, would you build both? I'd go for the Bravo and add the Linea, possibly with a new dash.

Quote Quote:
Oh, and the new Chrysler V6 looks like a pretty good engine for Alfa's big car too.
This is the 'funky' new engine I was talking about. Add Multiair and you probably have something really useful.
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Last edited by Ulpian; 01-05-2009 at 07:32.
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Old 01-05-2009   #21
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

For the longest time FIAT was talking about this venture as being an attempt to bring Alfa Romeo back to the states--and while fiats didn't terribly very well here before, Alfas still have their fans. There's a chance the compact could be the 147 (if that's still current, I don't keep up as I should).

Chrysler needs more than just compacts too. They need a proper family midsize--nobody wants their current offering. 6 recalls on 2008 dodge avengers last year, and their cosmetic changes to the sebring made a previously decently selling car quite undesirable. Alfa 159 maybe, or is more of a luxury thing (I honestly have no clue where all these models are aimed).

the 500 is the only model we know for sure is going to be offered, because a number are already here, and have been in promo shots/vids for some time. But I wonder a bit about engines. If I had to guess, it would be offered only in 100hp initially, with the 131hp turbo following some time later. Anything under 100hp is not going to sell terribly well here, I wouldn't think.
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Old 01-05-2009   #22
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Well I can't wait until they release the cars in the States, at least it will be something different, thus the Italian's won't make super-massive cars like the American's with their un-economical Ford E350's and Chrysler and the blatantly copied Bentley in the form of Chrysler 300. :P

At least it might be the first supermini in the USA. Although I've seen a new style Mini Cooper in the States, so BMW obviously market those things made just down the road over there, too :S
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Old 01-05-2009   #23
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

The Mito is guaranteed to be sold in the States, and that gives the group a sporty three door to complement the Bravo and Linea; and I would expect the revised 149 and the soon to arrive Milano as well. They will all have the new 1.8 engines, with Multiair, in various states of tune. The Multiair 1.4 will also make it, certainly for the Fiats, possibly for the low end Mito too.

I would expect the 500 to get the new 110 twin turbo with Multiair, and a CC with the same engine, and an Abarth with about 150bhp. Unless of course they need to get this car to market very soon, in which case I'd expect the standard 1.4 and the current Abarth.

Bloomberg said today that it will be two years before Fiat has models ready for US production, but given that the Bravo took only eighteen months from the drawing board to production I'd expect this time span to be reduced, and anyway, there isn't that much time.
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Old 01-05-2009   #24
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

I've been reading up a lot on this Chrysler mess over at their blog, and other places. The bankruptcy should take 30-60 days, after which FIAT will be given 20% of the company. They will increase their share in the following ways:



Quote Quote:
  • 5 percent for bringing a 40 mpg vehicle platform to Chrysler to be produced in the U.S.
  • 5 percent for providing a fuel-efficient engine family to be produced in the U.S. for use in Chrysler vehicles
  • 5 percent for providing Chrysler access to its vast global distribution network to facilitate the export of Chrysler vehicles.
Fiat cannot become a majority owner until after all U.S. government loans have been completely repaid.
Really that seems fair. FIAT getting access to one of the largest car markets in the world for the price of a few crutches for Chrysler. Until the bankruptcy has completed, manufacturing has been stopped, and line workers laid off.

I doubt anybody but me is as interested as I am in all this (since I don't see too many other americans around yet) but should anybody need extra toilet reading, here's some links I've been checking:
http://www.chryslerrestructuring.com/ (bankruptcy legalese)
http://blog.chryslerllc.com/ (general Chrysler blog)
http://www.financialpost.com/news-se...tml?id=1549841 (statement by FIAT about merger)
http://www.leftlanenews.com/nardelli...ome-to-us.html (confirms US 500, includes info on mexican 500)

hopefully this will go much better than that mess with daimler where Chrysler got a bunch of lousy outdated tech, and was basically run into the ground. Maybe the difference this time is that FIAT needs Chrysler to stay alive--if only for it's distrobution network in the US.

I'm pretty thrilled. I've been watching that Abarth 500 top gear review for months now. Looks like a real hoot. Especially on the narrow streets we have here in New Orleans. I think the 500 will sell okay, but will mostly wind up as a niche car for urban drivers. I say niche, because it's aimed at fans of 'small but not cheap.' The Mini isn't overly popular, but makes a fine living here and I'd expect the same for the FIAT.
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Last edited by Reaperman; 01-05-2009 at 18:57.
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Old 01-05-2009   #25
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

There has to be at least one other model, and I think it will be the Alfa Milano, which is new, possibly with another body. But what would be the point of an 'American' car with an expensive to design body when there is a large constituency of people wanting smaller European cars?

It will be interesting to see how this pans out, but there is no point in Fiat having outlets in the States unless they have a range of cars to sell in them.

The 500 is a niche product in Europe too, with the majority of small car sales going to little four door cars, including the Panda on which it is based.

I hope you get your 500 soon.
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Old 04-05-2009   #26
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Saw this on BBC news this morning. Didnt say much, just a few second bulliten.
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Old 04-05-2009   #27
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Quote Originally Posted by y2dom View Post
Saw this on BBC news this morning. Didnt say much, just a few second bulliten.

looks like they could be buying Vauxhall/Opel too

BBC; Fiat could buy Vauxhall and Opel
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Old 04-05-2009   #28
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Well Vauxhall and Opel are owned by GM which also happens to own Chrysler. :P So in effect, they'd be buying out the majority of General Motors. Where do FIAT make all their money to do this?!
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Old 04-05-2009   #29
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Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Oh yeah.....and how long has Chrysler been part of GM then?
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Old 04-05-2009   #30
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Wink Re: Today's deal between FIAT and Chrysler

Quote Originally Posted by PuntoSS View Post
Well Vauxhall and Opel are owned by GM which also happens to own Chrysler. :P So in effect, they'd be buying out the majority of General Motors. Where do FIAT make all their money to do this?!
GM owning Chrysler???

No Chrysler were owned by Daimler (pulling out now) and Cerberus Capital Management. Soon to be owned by US Govt, Chrysler mgt and Fiat.

Fiat buying Opel / Vauxhall is seperate deal:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews...54307B20090504

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