Punto - Tyres v Fuel Consumption

Currently reading:
Punto - Tyres v Fuel Consumption

Rivanski

New member
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
11
Points
4
Hey

Can anyone tell me what will happen regarding fuel consumption if i stick a set of 14" alloys with 185s on my Punto?

What if they were 15" alloys?

Is it to do with the width of the tyre?

I'm fed up with the amount of body roll at the moment, running normal 14" steels n 165/70/R14s.

Thanks,



Rivanski.
 
Hey

Can anyone tell me what will happen regarding fuel consumption if i stick a set of 14" alloys with 185s on my Punto?

What if they were 15" alloys?

Is it to do with the width of the tyre?

I'm fed up with the amount of body roll at the moment, running normal 14" steels n 165/70/R14s.

Thanks,



Rivanski.

In general terms skinny tyres give less rolling resistance (and less grip) so improve economy, but the tyre compound is important. To reduce body roll its the spring / damper / ride height combination that needs looking at (lower, stiffer, more damping) but overdo this and the ride will become chronic. If you change the rolling radius of the wheel / tyre set up the speedo will need re-calibrating.
 
Last edited:
Very little will change if you swap to standard HGT/Sporting size - 185/55/15.

The weight is a factor in fuel consumption but it won't be noticeable switching to the above size IME
 
Thanks for those suggestions.

Ffoxy - what make of dampers do ye suggest I buy for a Punto?



Cheers.
 
Thanks for those suggestions.

Ffoxy - what make of dampers do ye suggest I buy for a Punto?



Cheers.

Soz cant state specifically my car is a GPS and I dont need to do anything to it as yet suspension wise, but take a look here for a guide on suspension replacement on a Mk1 Punto

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-guides/117538-punto-mk1-full-suspension-fitting-guide.html

and the guys in the Punto section will have a wealth of knowledge. If I were doing it I wouldnt consider the dampers in isolation but a stiffer uprated spring and damper combination, maybe 30 - 35mm lower, depends if its a car for fun or a family car though.
 
Last edited:
Fantastic, Ffoxy.

One last, ignorant question - where is the best place to source spring/damper combos, to fit either myself or by a decent mechanic?


If anyone else would like to put their tuppenceworth in, feel free...
 
Hey

Can anyone tell me what will happen regarding fuel consumption if i stick a set of 14" alloys with 185s on my Punto?

What if they were 15" alloys?

Is it to do with the width of the tyre?

I'm fed up with the amount of body roll at the moment, running normal 14" steels n 165/70/R14s.

Thanks,

Rivanski.



;)

A wider tire will have more rolling and even air resistance but it will grip the road better. More resistance equals more fuel consumption, so keep that in mind. Same for a soft versus a hard tire in the same size. More grip from the soft tire means more resistance. Also, a wider tire has a greater potential for aquaplaning than a narrower tire of the same tread pattern. And the wider tire is worse in winter conditions all other things being equal.

Body roll is all about the suspension and has nothing to do with the tires or wheels. To fix that problem, you'll needed upgraded springs and shocks and don't forget the anti-roll or stabilizer bar.

My Punto 2 ELX JTD has 185/60 R 14 H as the standard size and I have no problem with them. The suspension and grip correspond correctly to the amount of power available. That may no longer be the case if I got the engine upgraded, so there is a balance to consider. My former Idea 1.9 JTD (100 HP) had a lot more engine than the suspension and steering were capable of dealing with and that was in spite of the 205/50 R 16's it came with from the factory.
 
;)
Body roll is all about the suspension and has nothing to do with the tires or wheels. To fix that problem, you'll needed upgraded springs and shocks and don't forget the anti-roll or stabilizer bar.

Yeah but the tire also acts as part of the suspension and tire profile size makes a difference
 
;)

There's a bit more to the story. Tires with low rolling resistance use slightly less fuel than normal tires of the same size. The first low resistance tire on the market was the original Continental EcoContact. Conti decided that 7% silica in the tread compound was the best compromise between performance and fuel savings. As other tire makers entered this market segment, they thought that if 7% silica gave some fuel savings, then 14% would double the savings and 21% would triple them. That idea was more-or-less correct and soon almost everyone had an energy-efficient tire on the market. Michelin and Dunlop in particular jumped on the "more-is-better' idea and introduced tires with much more silica than Conti used. They did get better fuel savings, but they paid for it with lower performance, especially in the wet.

Conti is now on the third generation of the EcoContact and the others have also moved along as well. Conti still uses less silica that most/all of its competitors as they believe that performance should not be sacrificed to economy.

On my last installment, I mentioned the difference between hard and soft tires but I did not tell you how to tell the difference by looking. Tires made for the USA market must bear the USDOT (UKMOT) mark and a lot of other info on them to show they comply with US rules. Along the sidewall of most tires sold in Europe you'll see the markings Treadwear......Traction......Temperature. Treadwear is followed by a three figure number and the others are followed by letters. The lower the Treadwear rating is, the softer the tire is, the more grip it should have and the faster it will wear out. I've seen numbers from about 170 to just over 700. You may get something like 100,000 miles of life out of a tire with the 700 index, but you would get sick of driving on it pretty fast as they are no fun. Somewhere around 300 is a good compromise between life and performance.

And yes, most tires sold in Europe will have the DOT mark and info on them. That includes tires like Uniroyal, that are not sold in the USA at all. When Uniroyal's original owners decided to sell the company, no one wanted to buy the entire operation. The European part went to Continental and the US part went to Michelin. Neither one can sell Uniroyal brand tires outside of their own territory. No European Uniroyals are sold in the US and no US Uniroyals are sold in Europe to avoid confusing things. So why does Uniroyal Europe put DOT markings on its tires that can't be sold in the land of the DOT? It shows that their tires are made to the highest standards anywhere as they also have the E-mark on them as well. Also, it lets Continental sell certain Uniroyal tires in the USA with the Conti name on them. The tires already passed all DOT requirements, so the rebadged version doesn't need to be tested again. The old Uniroyal RTT-2 was discontinued here when the Rainsport 1 came out. Instead of being retired, it became the Conti Extreme Contact in the USA and became quite popular.

And if you haven't guessed by now, I used to sell tires... Cooper (sold in the UK, they also own Avon) is the one to have if you want one that has a very long life and don't care about performance. Most mainline European tires are also good, but I prefer Conti and Uni with the original Premium Contact being my first choice.
 
And beware of low profile tires.

You may get better steering and grip, but it ends there. Low-Pro's tend to be soft and wear out fairly quickly. They also tend to be a LOT more expensive that standard tires, one 17 or 18/35 Z tire can easily cost more than a set of four of the original 13 or 14 T tires. Low-Pro's also give a much harder ride as well compared to a normal tire. I personally would not spend that kind of money just to look cool, but I'll officially be a senior citizen next year.
 
Low-Pro's tend to be soft and wear out fairly quickly

not true. low profile tyres are sold with the same choice of compounds as other tyres, the only difference is the profile.

They also tend to be a LOT more expensive that standard tires

not true. price is dictated by brand and size, not profile.

I personally would not spend that kind of money just to look cool
they are used to make bigger wheels fit on your car and to improve handling, not to look cool.
 
not true. low profile tyres are sold with the same choice of compounds as other tyres, the only difference is the profile.



not true. price is dictated by brand and size, not profile.


they are used to make bigger wheels fit on your car and to improve handling, not to look cool.

I'm talking about mainstream brands here. Yes there are some cheap low-pro's out there, but you wouldn't want them on your car for anything other than just looks. According to ADAC and other testing services, most of the cheap ones are pretty poor.

And what's the point of putting 17 or 18 inch wheels on, something like a Cinq, Sei, Panda, Punto, or other small vehicle with a small engine? Even with a remap or other mods, you'll never have enough power to be able to use anywhere near what those tires and wheels can deliver in terms of handling and braking. Most of this stuff is bought by young men in order to impress their peers and more importantly, thier peers of the opposite sex. Although better performance is usually the reason given for these purchases, in reality it can't be used. At least I can be in Germany in a little over an hour and have some legal fun every so often that's pretty hard to come by in most other places. I had my Idea up to about 207 KmH indicated several times and didn't have to worry about being flashed in the process.

And the profile is part of the size... The price normally increases as the profile number decreases for the same width and speed rating of tire on the same height of rim. A 205/50 R 16 V is normally more expensive that a 205/55 or a 205/60 with all the rest being equal. And when you go from a 165/65 R 14 T standard tire to something like 215/35 R 17 Y, the price difference is huge, even in the same manufacturer's catalog. And that's not counting the price of those new rims to mount them on. In order to keep about the same overall height, you have to go to a replacement tire that is rather wider and has a much lower profile but needs a taller rim. And most really low-pro tires do not come in S or T speed ratings because they were not designed to be used on low-powered cars. You have to buy more expensive V, W, Y or Z rated tires for a car that may struggle or be unable to exceed the design speed of T rated tires. I really don't think it's worth it, especially when you take into account the increased fuel consumption and worse wet weather and winter performance that you get with this stuff. Of course your priorities may be somewhat different and it is in fact your own money, so have at it.
 
Yes there are some cheap low-pro's out there, but you wouldn't want them on your car for anything other than just looks. According to ADAC and other testing services, most of the cheap ones are pretty poor.
plenty of reviews, tests & comparisons from respected names such as autoexpress (and also my own experience) show that there are many budget tyres that are just as good as the premium brands. in many cases the budget brands are just another name for a premium brand tyre, they are made using the same compound in the same factory but the manufacturer changes the branding and price to let the tyre sell in more markets.

And what's the point of putting 17 or 18 inch wheels on, something like a Cinq, Sei, Panda, Punto, or other small vehicle with a small engine? Even with a remap or other mods, you'll never have enough power to be able to use anywhere near what those tires and wheels can deliver in terms of handling and braking.
even a cinq can go into a corner at 100mph, but i agree there is no real benefit to using huge wheels on a car that doesn't need them other than for boyracer styling. in most cases huge wheels will decrease performance in terms of acceleration and top speed because a greater rolling diameter will make the gearing longer. you need plenty of torque to deal with that, so a small naturally aspirated petrol engine suffers most.

The price normally increases as the profile number decreases for the same width and speed rating of tire on the same height of rim.
yes i agree.
 
Back
Top