Faith? I have faith... faith in myself and others. Why have faith in something thats not there? bit of a waste of precious time personally.

over the years i have givent this some thought... heres a few of my ovservations and opinions - feel free to refute, deny or agree!

1.
I dont recall any acts of violence or wars throught time that were not directly caused or in some way influenced by differing beliefs. If your "god" exists, would he want you all to kill each other to honour him? In this way and so many others religious people are the biggest hippocrites I have ever talked to.

2.
Religious smokers etc... Big peeve... they give you evil eyeball for not taking your kids to sunday school, but if god gifted you with such a wonderful fantastic body, would he want you to desecrate it and harm the health of others in the process? Hippocrites again.

3.
Inteligent design... As an engineer and architect I admire the human body as a wonderfully complex system. But it is a system - with quantifiable intricate workings to keep us all ticking, and if something goes wrong with the system or if its poorly maintained, just like any other system it will become unstable and possibly fail. If we were all created in gods image all we would need would be a glowing light emanating from our etherreal carapaces... hmmm.

4.
It scares me to death thinking that curriculums in america are shunning teaching the scientific process and darwinism in favour of intelligent design. I thank my lucky stars that i was taught to question my surroundings and to apply logic to problems and not rely on some book penned 2000 years ago... an increasing volume of people in the world will not have that privelage - what will that do to the world? see point 1.

I really could go off on one on this subject. I appologise if i have offended, but i do respect other peoples right to believe in whatever they want to... i just dont believe in their right to impose those beliefs on anyone else or allow suffering to be caused as a result of those beliefs... read point 1 again just to remind yourselves.


sincerely
chris

The Negotiator said:

God is our creator and therefore creates our mistakes too, he is there for forgive us. My athiestism is due to how he created me therefore the beauty is that he can't have a go at me when I approach death

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PMSL
Thats getting tattooed on the inside of my eyelids. So that when my biological systems fail. If I do end up infont of the pearly gates I can explain myself!

hehe

These sorts of thoughts are what years of Catholic education lead to. If I have doubts, it's his fault, not mine.

i wanna think of a new design, so i can argue more, negotiators got the evolution bit sorted........ lets make up a new one!

i have had this arguement constantly with ross for the past year, he used to be in a very very strict form of christianity, where imo, he was convinced into to believing everthing expect what is feasibly possible. id love for these deeply religioustypes to sit back and read some of the fundametal philosophical works (which do not argue either way) to discover a new form of open mindedness,

i dont think its about what you believe. its about what, in your mind, is most feasible, we all know religion is based on belief and faith, but science (unlike common belief) is not HARD facts, its mearly logical theories that have been proven over and over again. in no point in science should it ever be said fact, more the level of probability.(Karl poppers falsification) ie if i drop the ball, it will hit the floor, i do it over and over and it always seems to happen, it happens to other objects and in other conditions, but does this mean it will always happen for the rest of time? ( n this is basic philosophy, imagine if it was more in depth )

its late and im in a philosphical mood. i dont trust religion, to me it seems to be a very archaic way of explaining what was not understandable at the time, and continual belief in such views may hamper inteligent progress of logic, however just because science appears to be doing a good job in this day and age doesnt mean it is with out a doubt the answer


me.... evolution, imo is more feasible than any theories ive heard so far, but alas its still a theory.


ooooer!

( ps i dont care to argue, ive argued this enough with ross )
pps booger just managed to annoy all yon religios types and sciency types. no harm meant

i don't think people really understand the power of Darwins Natural Selection. and thats why they follow religion.

Dawkins wrote a book called the Ancestors tale linking us to the various species where we may have adapted from. steven hawkins states that when we truly understand the universe "we will understnad the mind of God".

the designer of the universe if there is one would have to of designed everything. how could he manage that in 6 days. unless thats "imaginery time" where he could slow it down. designing the stars to burn hydrogen into helium, designing black holes and event horisons, planets, gravity, vacuums, supanoavas.

there are so many variables and factors that could not be designed in this time.

when we developed out of a gene pool by Natural Selection the orriginal atmosphere that the world is documented to have (at that time) would not of supported life of our kind.

we breathe oxygen but at the time of the orriginal gene pool the atmosphere was nitrogen sulphide that is poisonous to us. it is said that the orrigianl singled celled organisms breathed this and converted the gas to oxygen like how we do when we convert it to carbon dioxide. and the trees do when they convert it back to oxygen. to do this on a planetary scale would take thousands of years atleast. (6 days yeeeeahh)

Natural Selection is slow evolution. this accounts for all the things that all animals have. It does not mean survival of the physical fittest. it means survival of what benefits the genetic fitness of the animal.

when we first stood on two legs it would of had to of benefited us. also when we started talking it would of benefitted us.

life has taken too long for there too be a designer that could click his fingers and say i make man like this and animals like that



evidence = Fossils



(imaginery time is documented in steven hawkins book a brief history of time. going back in that time is easy. but in a univers of imaginery time we would be able to travel forwards and backwards and pause time ourselves. this is not so hence it does nto exist)

If the Earth had a different tilt and, say, the average temperature around the planet was say, 30 degrees less than it is now, we would still be here. The Earth didn't get made to suit us, we evolved to suit the Earth.

Granted, if there was that change in temperature over night, then yes, we probably would die (well a large percentage of the Earth's population would). If the Earth was that cold to start with, then the bits of bacteria that life forms from would grow and multiply and would adapt to suit the temperature.

How do you explain small life forms in under ground caves? People have discovered underground voids within rocks with pools of water in then that contain small insects and such. There is no light down there, but they survive. They have no eyes, because they don't need them as there's no light. They are also transparant, perhaps for similar reasons. And I'm sure the temperature would differ to that on the surface. But they haven't died, because millions of years ago, some bacteria or whatever settled within the void and adapted to the surroundings. The particles of bacteria that weren't good enough for the conditions would have died, but the 'strong' bacteria would have survived. Perhaps if one of these life forms was brought up to the surface, they may die. And that could be because the temperature doesn't suit them or that they may get eaten by another animal because of their lack of sight. Who knows, it's evolution, and it's the survival of the fittest.

Due to global warming, humans and/or animals may not survive when the Earth heats up to unbearable temperatures, but I bet my bottom dollar that somewhere, sometime, there will be life on Earth again, due to life (even in it's most primitive form) being able to adapt.

Sorry for the long post, I couldn't stop once I'd started!

good point.

life must there fore of found a way on other planets in the universe.

cause i say they say it would be an awful waste of space if there wasn't

dillinger39 said:

good point.

life must there fore of found a way on other planets in the universe.

cause i say they say it would be an awful waste of space if there wasn't

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I totally agree!
Think there is more chance of God appearing on the BBC and declaring Darwin is a big poof, than earth being the only planet in the universe that has life!

dillinger39 said:

(imaginery time is documented in steven hawkins book a brief history of time. going back in that time is easy. but in a univers of imaginery time we would be able to travel forwards and backwards and pause time ourselves. this is not so hence it does nto exist)

Click to expand...

I read Hawkin's book and it's fascinating. I don't confess to being able to understand most of it, but I tried! 'Imaginary Time' and 'String Theory' were very hard to grasp, but one thing I think I remember was that though it is theoretically possible to travel back in time it is not 'time' as in ending up at the same place you were in yesterday. You could travel back in time but it would be in a different place of existance. Or something like that.

I'd have to read the book again to have any hope of explaining some of Hawkin's theories!

The Trooper said:

Due to global warming, humans and/or animals may not survive when the Earth heats up to unbearable temperatures, but I bet my bottom dollar that somewhere, sometime, there will be life on Earth again, due to life (even in it's most primitive form) being able to adapt.

Click to expand...

I think it is more than likely that in years to come earth will become unihabitable by any life form. Don't worry, this is millions (if not billions) or years into the future.

It is reckoned that Venus once had an atmosphere similar to earth and was capable of sustaining life. Now however it is totally uninhabitable with no atmosphere. It is also far too hot!

A very long time ago it would have been much cooler because the sun was also much cooler and smaller. With Venus being nearer to the sun it would have had temperatures similar to our current earth temps, while at that time earth would have been far too cold and probably lacking an atmosphere.

However, with the sun expanding (as stars do) and radiating more heat (the sun is getting hotter), Venus also got hotter and hotter until it lost its atmosphere and became incapable of sustaining life as we know it. But the sun's expansion and greater heat then warmed up the earth to the point where it became capable of sustaining life, and the subsequent chemical/ physical reactions also helped create the earth's atmosphere.

The sun will continue to expand and give out greater amounts of heat in the form of radiation until the earth effectively fries. Our temps will increase and we risk losing the atmosphere. At this point Mars will start to warm up and could be the only option for sustaining human life. Expect a mass exodus to Mars when earth gets heated up at gas mark 9

This also suggests that a lot of the panic behind global warming is unfounded because the earth is going to warm up anyway - WHATEVER WE DO. It may not heat up as quick if we stop pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, but it will still increase in temperature regardless.

What none of the climate change organisations have been able to show is how much difference all these emission restrictions will make on global warming. By saying that average temperatures are going to be up by a degree or two in the next hundred years, if we stopped pumping out greenhouse gases how much difference would that make? I suspect not that much...

So we're all going to fry eventually at some point in the earth's lifespan. Nothing can be done about it by us or God, so clinging to a bible will do bugger all when future generations are standing in the frying pan called earth and the temperature is rising.

Better start investing in land shares on Mars then

I'm reading God Delusion now but had to break off half way through to fix my son's mini (fool should have bought a FIAT). Quotes I like include a few Dawkinsisms, e.g. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further". This is from ‘The Infected Mind - The Great Convergence’, an essay in "A Devil’s Chaplain” published by Weidenfeld & Nicholson in 2003.

'Religion Explained' by Pascal Boyer (ISBN 0 099 28276 3) also worth reading.
Evolution doubters should read Dawkins brilliant account of evolution, 'The Ancestors Tale'. Actually it's so good everyone should read it!

2000 Punto 1.9 JTD/HLX

I also believe in a scientist´s point of view but have tried really hard to believe in GOD, but all these questions keep popping up and can only be explained scientifically i won´t start with examples as this post is gonna be quite long already...

My point is it´s really sad that everything just goes black when you die and you´ll never open your eyes for anything else cause you´ll just be rotting in a casket and being eaten by maggots for all eternity.

Now eternity is a scary word, atleast for me it is I´ll explain why... Now can you all imagine eternity? day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year...millions of years... billions of years... Everything ceases to exist or flourishes but you won´t be around or even have the slightest notion of anything just plain nothingness... It´s like sleeping but without any dreams just... nothing... you´ll never take another breath, see another site, thinck another thought just NOTHING!

Try and really imagine this... best time to get a grasp or notion of this or the alternative after this is when your about to go to bed and everything is quiet and dark absolute silence. Now imagine blackness and nothingness you won´t be able to thinck, move ,smell ,hear , feel just plain NOTHING (for full effect dwell on these thoughts for as long as you like and keep it real DON´t move an inch!) and that´s how it will remain for ever and ever and EVER!

I´d feel alot better if i knew there was something after this life but then again i´m scared of living eternally too... what would be left to do a million years from now? Thinck of this alternative... waking up day after day, year after year... millions billions of years (you get the point ) we´d all go insane the human brain could probably stay sane for about 300 years (well my brain atleast, depends on how it would be afterwards)
Use your imagination make plans for a year, a whole lifetime now what would you do in your 151st billionth lifetime or year of existence?


Just a small portion of what comes up while i´m trying to get some z´s

P.S I cannot be held responsible for anybody going crazy or getting institucionalized or comitting mass suicide/murder caused from reading this article.

the nothingness of death is the best part. you wont even be aware of your death, you wont be anything, thats what makes it so easy to deal with.