What a nightmare!

Yesterday in the snow I went with my parents and they agreed on a 3 year old Megane Dci. Beautiful car with loads of extras which was great. Obviously it was covered in snow etc. so we agreed to look at the car this morning to find any faults, with a returnable deposit down.

Never in my life have I had such a stressful "discussion" with "professional" car sellers. Everything was agreed, 2 dents on the front of the rear wing, a dent on the boot etc. and refurbed alloys (alloys not very bad at all but he said "would you like the alloys doing?" would be rude to say no. Of course the bloke was all lovey dovey and nice.

Everything was signed for and that was it, he offered us a little play with the car before we went and gave us the keys. Went back and whilst on our own I noticed a 1-2" ripple on the window rim (rubber but with metal inside). I wasn't happy - I know these can rust badly.

Off my Dad went to get our salesmen who wasn't happy:

"you're asking too much"
"the car isn't new"

blah blah blah from:
"we will have everything perfect, showroom condition as YOU want it don't worry I'll sort everything"

So i stepped in from this point since I was slightly riled and quoted what he had said the day before an 30 minutes before, stating that although we had now signed for it, we wanted this adding to the list.

"i can't give you that"
"well go get somebody who can"

THe manager came out, didn't introduce himself and just walked to the car (made us wait for 10 minutes too). My dad took the **** by introducing himself rather loudly lol.

Basically the background is that he was off the day before and normally values the P-ex cars. He wasn't there and our car was priced up approximately double (!!!!) what we expected! The person who valued the car supposedly has received a return warning and the money come from some of the new years bonus fund (hmm)

This is when it turned nasty, all we wanted was the work agreed to be done and the window seal to be replaced (guessing £20??). The manager goes around all the other items we had picked up on and takes the salesman to the side and has a go at him for agreeing on all of the items that he did.

Obviously he said things to us like "we're not making any money on this blah blah blah" Eventually he agreed to do everything on the list and the window strip, fine.

He tried to keep wrangling out of what was already agreed then, my dad walked away and phoned my mum leaving me and the manager and salesmen.

It wasn't like a quick agreement for a car but more like a ****ing fist fight over billions of dollars. He then stated that he wouldn't replace the window lining if he had to refurbed the agreed alloys. I was like "excuse me, you did agree on the lining"

He said
"not on the paper work mate"
To which I replied (i hope I am right!)
"you agreed verbally, there are 3 witnesses here, a verbal agreement is a contract, mate"

"I never agreed it"
The salesman of course butt in and said "he didn't agree it" lol

So of course "your word against mine and you have gone back on your word"

So I am standing in a ****ing garage and having to argue not only for a little bit of window lining to be replaced but everything on the work form that we signed. Time to walk away.

I know you're bored reading lol.

My dad is still away at this point and the manager is a rude SOB, I keep going to the window and stating "Look, this is a major fault do you not agree?"

*no reply he just looks at something else*

So he keeps going on about how the other dents will be impossible to repair blah blah blah and taking the **** like "shall I use my magic wand?"

Eventually my persistance paid off, he agreed to everything I wanted (and an extra alloy wheel refurb?!?! lol, erm!) gave us the paper work and let us write down what we wanted. He also said we could have our refund back

It was unbelievable, I took my dad to the side and said "let's walk, the deal is sour whatever happens now" (all well and good BUT we knew that the P-ex on our car would cost us dearly elsewhere).

My legs are like jelly at this point, I couldn't believe we were in this position after 30 minutes before everything was 101% fine and we were looking forward to the new car.

Eventually the manager shook our hands, said everything will be done as requested and that was the end of.

The salesman then got a 5 minute bollocking for agreeing on all the work that he did despite the massive mistake on the P-ex price of our old car.

You don't expect people to go back on their words on such a serious issue.

Am I happy? No

On the plus side the salesmen who turned back all lovey dovey said that I was doing the wrong degree and should do law, I didn't say what I was thinking:

"you and your manager should go study customer services"

lol, sorry about the superlong thread!

The Negotiator said:

On the plus side the salesmen who turned back all lovey dovey said that I was doing the wrong degree and should do law, I didn't say what I was thinking:

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I have told you that loads of times

Well done for not giving in, car sales are weak so they can't afford to loose the business.

Exactly, car was already in Jan sale (supported by the website showing the higher price!), got nothing off the price of the car but the P-ex value on our car (their mistake) meant we got it for a private price with a lifetime warranty and dealership support.

Trouble is, I don't want to go back now since I didn't let them get away with anything and I will feel like they all hate me (!) but my dad says I am the only one that can get what is wanted.

I came out with jelly like legs and a stress headache, I feel like I have done a 2 hour exam (honestly!). I can see it from their point of view, they either need profit or to break even but "my heart bleeds". They should never have valued our old scenic so highly and then offered so much. We could tell margins were tight since he came back to beg for the 6 months tax back that he offered us in an embarrassed way after realising they had overvalued our scenic and signed for it lol.

Don't get me wrong, we weren't expecting a brand new car, but we were expecting them to keep to their word from yesterday.

this sounds like what happened to my dad, he had agreed on buying his ford focus for £6700 with free tax, supagard, free warranty, etc. when we went back to collect the car, the salesman had thought the car was a basic LX, but was actually a GHIA, so the guy didnt want to give the free tax, or the warranty, and kept saying stupid things like 'i cant do that deal, its out of my hands' and 'i have other cars i can offer you'. but thankfully my dad is stubborn

Well I am half expecting a phone call to ask to cancel.

I have to remember (since I actually have gotten upset about it) that the only reason why they got so nasty was because they realised that they had dropped a clanger!

the main dealer will have between £1000 - £1500 profit before sale. if he takes a £1000 out of the deal, he is still in profit. remember, by law a dealer has to put approx £400 to one side for resale repairs/pdi on every car. if they only spend £200 on one car, they have the rest to use elsewhere. so they have plenty of money to give a generous p/x. the manager and salesman are trying it on. its a common trick to make you feel sorry for the salesman. its the good and bad person con. just stick to your guns. at this time of yr, any used car deal is good for them. just to turn over metal is good for them. any finance they sell rewards them with commission. hope you asked for a tank of fuel !!

sumplug said:

the main dealer will have between £1000 - £1500 profit before sale. if he takes a £1000 out of the deal, he is still in profit. remember, by law a dealer has to put approx £400 to one side for resale repairs/pdi on every car. if they only spend £200 on one car, they have the rest to use elsewhere. so they have plenty of money to give a generous p/x. the manager and salesman are trying it on. its a common trick to make you feel sorry for the salesman. its the good and bad person con. just stick to your guns. at this time of yr, any used car deal is good for them. just to turn over metal is good for them. any finance they sell rewards them with commission. hope you asked for a tank of fuel !!

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Not quite true. There is no law about keeping money aside, how the pdi is funded is up to the individual dealer. Also remember that, even though its a used car, the dealer has to pay VAT on the selling price with no allowance for refurbishment. They also have to pay rates, insurance and electricity before they even sell a car. Yes you should have been treated better, but life is no bed of roses for the car trade at the moment.

Cheers

D

Got £20 fuel after asking for a tank ful.

Sumplug, I give you my honest opinion here; they ****ed up. I am sure of it, the manager was so angry at the salesman and before all this happened, he said the person valued our car was in the ****.

Rallycinq; don't get me wrong, I know the situation with the car industry etc. but if they had said "sold as it is" then ok, we probably would have walked, but no point promising x and y and then backing out.

After the P-ex mistake (their's not ours) and agreeing on all the work, a 'lifetime warranty' etc. we have paid below private price for a car which should be perfect, with £2000 worth of extras (such as folding in wing mirrors!)

In hindsight, i think the manager thought we were asking the dents to be removed because he seemed to be arguing that, but we were like "that's not an issue, it has already been agreed on the paperwork and signed for 30 minutes ago!" I think that's when it dawned on him that not only had they overvalued our car but also promised work which will cost them a lot of money (including service, MOT, etc...).

Before we mentioned a P-ex on our old scenic, they wouldn't budge at all on the price of the new megane, repeatedly saying "this is as low as we can take" where as most dealers say "well ok, we can knock 300 off" etc. Very unusual. Hence I do feel that the over-valued P-ex wasn't the discount, it was just a mistake.

Anyway, beautiful car and can't wait to see if parents will insure me on it lol.

friend of mine at work went to vauxhall dealer for a mpv the vauxhall... dam it for got the name but you know wone i mean anyway they had sale on he sorted all deal out got fantastic price signed for it all done contract went home. next day phone call was the vauxhall saying they made mistake car will be an extra £1500 he refused to pay said i signed contract with price on it. they said ok leave with us. next day anotehr call from vauxhall saying they are pulling out of the contract and that he aint getting the car. he was shocked spoke to lawyer said they cant do that they signed agreement they cant just tear it up. soo he is dispute with em at the moment

We have a photocopy of what has been signed and I took a photo of what was agreed with my camera phone (bet you can't see the piece of paper it's so poor).

What made me laugh was "eh mate no need to do that now we have agreed we won't back out we're not dishonest"

I nearly laughed.

I would have walked as soon as they started messing about. If anything goes wrong you want to be on good terms with where you bought the car from.

I wouldn't leave them to fix parts that you have haggled over - they'll be in a bad mood and are likely to either break something or do a crappy job just to spite you.

If you're going to haggle make sure you'll be taking it there and then.

As for Paul, sounds like they were playing a very well practised good 'cop' bad 'cop' routine. The garage would not sell cars for less than profit. The scrap yard I took my car to gave me 75 quid and was complaining that he'll make no money and its a one off.. Thats why he drives around in a A8 and his partner drives a brand spanker Range Rover.

I would have walked but the P-ex price on the old car means that we would be missing out on a good deal.

It's the second car we have bought from them and all our cars get serviced there and the first time we have had a problem.

Finally hellcat, I reckon I can tell 9 times out of 10 when somebody is play acting and when they are serious. If they were acting, they need an Oscar each...

Totally OT and for this I am truly sorry.. but..

How much do you spend on your moggy per month? We're thinking of getting one but dont want to get one if we can't afford to keep it in good health. My parents owned two but they died a few years ago (aged 18 and 19)

I haven't a clue, an awful lot. He has always been very overweight so has had to have very special food which is expensive. He goes to a dietrician (i'm not kidding!) every other month and has to have lots of vet visits to keep him healthy

Since my parents buy it all it would be best to ask somebody else!

WOrth every penny though!

to go along with these off topic ramblings..

our two cats only eat fresh chicken and fresh cod. it costs a small fortune but the cats eat all of it (they leave most of the tinned stuff), and the cats will live longer. also american scientists have found that tinned cat food leads to kidney failure.

christopher watson said:

also american scientists have found that tinned cat food leads to kidney failure.

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well take it out the tin then!

And to bring it almost back on topic, the Car dealer replies

Our two cats, both over 16 and as healthy as you can get, have one tin of food in the morning and one tin in the evening, when its cold. They do eat a lot less during the summer.

Cheers

D

rallycinq said:

Not quite true. There is no law about keeping money aside, how the pdi is funded is up to the individual dealer. Also remember that, even though its a used car, the dealer has to pay VAT on the selling price with no allowance for refurbishment. They also have to pay rates, insurance and electricity before they even sell a car. Yes you should have been treated better, but life is no bed of roses for the car trade at the moment.

Cheers

D

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There is a law that dictates you put money aside for service and repairs per car. this is why its VAT deductable. cannot remember what its called, but you had to show it in vat books.
regarding the car trade. its on its knees. no real profit on new cars. only on servicing and parts. used prices have bottomed out and of course its the worst period for sales.

sumplug said:

There is a law that dictates you put money aside for service and repairs per car. this is why its VAT deductable. cannot remember what its called, but you had to show it in vat books.
regarding the car trade. its on its knees. no real profit on new cars. only on servicing and parts. used prices have bottomed out and of course its the worst period for sales.

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There is no law which says you need to have X amount for repairs etc, but there is an allowed deduction for VAT if you have the work done outside the selling garage. You can't however do the repairs yourself as a dealer and claim the full amount of VAT relief including labour, you can only claim VAT on the materials.

Full value VAT is only applied to cars of a certain age and VAT can only be reclaimed by dealers on cars for part exchange of a certain age, you often see the term "VAT qualifying vehicle" when you search main dealer websites. The VAT on used cars is only on the profit content, so if the dealer paid £10K and sold it for £11K, then VAT would apply to the £1K profit only not the full amount. You can sell a car at a loss if you want and write the loss off, but you can't make a claim against your VAT return for the loss.

I am sure Stu will be able to give you the full details.