I thought this merited it's own thread because I'm sure it's a problem many of us have faced.

In our street we all have 6 ft high fences round our back gardens which we erected around 30+ years ago, once the builders had completed our houses. So, unsurprisingly, their posts are all starting to rot off at ground level. The posts are 8ft 4"x4" so 6ft above ground with 2ft set in concrete below ground. Over the last year or so I've dug up 4 of these and reset new posts into the ground. Almost as quickly as I'm digging them up I find another one broken - there are another 4 I know of right now and there are 25 posts in all and I know the whole lot will need doing in the near future. Anyone who has dug out concreted in fence posts will know why this though is depressing me, it's jolly hard work!

I've been looking at "unconventional" solutions on line and came across one I really liked the look of this solution: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson...e-for-4x4-Nominal-Wood-Post-FPBM44E/202563551 but they are very hard to find in the UK and quite expensive too. Then I came across the Post Buddy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTAmK5vI1Kg which looked interesting. However I wasn't completely convinced so didn't buy. My neighbour then mentioned in passing that he was thinking of tackling some of his posts and, having seen me doing mine, asked me how difficult it is to do. This chap is nothing like as fit as me. He's carrying quite a lot of weight and has recently had a heart operation so I advised him not to do it. He was still wanting to sort his fence though and was not prepared (maybe unable to afford) to pay someone else to do it and I've got enough on with my own to even think of offering to do his. Then I remembered the Post Buddy video I'd seen, mentioned my miss givings, and offered to install them if he wanted to buy a couple just to try on one post.

A few days later he knocked on my door with them so there was no wriggling out of my offer! Here's one just before I started to install it:



The end which goes in the ground is chamfered:



This chamfer is important in keeping the rod at the junction of the wood and conncrete so you have install it the right way round - it's marked though so you'd have to be a complete idiot to do it wrong.

The top end has one slotted screw hole:



Which is the first one you put a screw in after bashing the rod into the ground (by the way, this system will only work with concreted in posts. You won't get enough support in just earth). Screw the screw in until it's just a tad away from tight and then use your spirit level to square the post before fully tightening the screw. Be careful to place the screw in the middle of the slot so you have some give and take in the slot as you "true" the post. Then just fit the rest of the screws. I think putting the screws in at a slight angle will help to stop "fretting" when the wind tries to waggle the post.

The rods take quite some bashing to drive them home and I found that putting a block of wood between the post and the rod to make it lean out slightly made it much easier to hit. If you do this don't worry about the rod not going down between the concrete and the rest of the post underground as the chamfer on the end of the rod will keep it against the concrete. Also there is some sort of tough surface coating on the rods which should delay rusting.

Here are the tools I used to get the job done:



D'you like my old Spear and Jackson "Never Bend" spade?:



The metal part is all formed - forged - from one piece of metal and is virtually indestructible:



The little support pieces for your foot also make extended digging much easier on your boots. I forgot to time myself but I recon around 20 minutes per spike would be easily achievable. Here's one of the rods after being installed - the second one can be installed either on the other side of the post, which I did here to avoid having to shift the fence panel, or at right angles as the chap in the video did:



I've given the post a really good "wiggle" and it feels very solid indeed. I suppose the proof of the pudding will come in the winter gales but I'm impressed enough I'm going to try with one of mine.

Until I started looking into this I'd always supposed the only effective way to do the job would be to replace the entire Post. What I hadn't understood is that the post, in most cases, only rots off at ground level where the combination of air, dampness and other factors like fungus and living organisms can get to work on it. I'd noticed before that the bit of post you dig out of the ground is still in good condition and not really rotted at all but I'd not thought about the implications of this and nearly always, unless very old indeed, the post above ground is still very sound. The rods are quite hard to drive into place but this is good because it means the wood further down is in good order and the rods are going to get a good anchor. If the rods are very easy to drive in then either the wood has rotted or, more likely, the concrete has split - or maybe there is no concrete at all? If they drive in very easily probably they are not going to get enough purchase to support the post. Most of my posts are done with hand mixed concrete as I did them at the same time and it's much cheaper to do it that way rather than the relatively expensive ready mixed bags. However I have a couple of posts which I put in later using the ready mixed bags and one of these broke of about a week ago. I've noticed the ready mixed product, which works very well, is much easier to break up with an impact hammer than the traditionally hand mixed batch. I'm wondering if it'll be prone to splitting when the rods are hammered home? So I'm going to try this one first. If it doesn't get a good purchase I'll just have to dig out these ones but I'll use the rods on the others with the batch hand mixed concrete.

To say I'm impressed with the result on this one post would be an understatement. I'm amazed at how solid the post feels. There's just one thing tempting me and that is that Toolstation sells heavy duty galvanised strapping I metre long by 30mm wide by 5mm thick which, if I carefully grind a chamfer on one end, might just do the same job for a fraction of the price?

As I mentioned elsewhere my daughter and her "tribe" are staying with us for the week. They arrived last Friday evening and it's been a busy weekend but today they decided to go "Bouldering" and having had this activity described to me I decided it probably wasn't for me so I was looking forward to a quiet day. Silly me! The front door bell rang shortly after they had departed and it was my neighbour. Turns out he'd actually bought two sets of the Post Buddies and could I show him how to do the other broken post!

I couldn't turn him down and actually he caught on very quickly so the job was all done in under an hour - although he had to use my club hammer and his electric drill ran out of charge after the first screw. So this is now 2 posts reinforced in this way and both are feeling very secure which further reassures me that, providing the "Buddies" are getting a good grip (which I think you can ascertain to be the case if they take a good whacking to install?) then this system would seem to be a good "semi permanent" way to repair rotted off posts. Whilst working well on these longer posts I would imagine this system would work especially well on shorter posts?

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

I thought this merited it's own thread because I'm sure it's a problem many of us have faced

Click to expand...

That looks like hard work to me Jock.

My neighbours stopped maintaining their fence leaving me with a set of panels flapping over my main access and front door, so it was either no fence or a repair. I just cut the panels off the posts with a hacksaw equipped chop saw and lifted the posts away. Metposts hammered straight into the rotten post holes which had been concreted in originally. A quick slice off of the rotten post endand flip them upside down and into the metpost sockets. Remove the nail stumps from the panels with a punch and pincers and refix with outdoor grade screws, job done and they have stayed put for over 10 years. New neighbours are about to replace the whole lot with panel and slotted concrete posts so my current urgent task is to retrieve my met posts. I need a couple and the others can be sold on Ebay for what I paid back then! You do need the metpost installation tool. Basically a rubber block just smaller than a fence post to allow it to be bashed into the ground without damage.

Its always interesting to see how other people set about similar tasks for future reference.

PS That spade belongs in an agricultural museum! Which side of the family did you inherit it from???

The Panda Nut said:

That looks like hard work to me Jock.

Metposts hammered straight into the rotten post holes which had been concreted in originally.

Its always interesting to see how other people set about similar tasks for future reference.

PS That spade belongs in an agricultural museum! Which side of the family did you inherit it from???

Click to expand...

Digging up and replacing the whole post is indeed absolutely backbreaking, although by using my Hi-Lift farm jack the hard labour is considerably reduced. The difficult bit I find is that you have to make a considerable size of hole when removing the old concrete slug from the ground. When installing a new post into "virgin" ground I can dig a very neat hole using my post hole digger https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/spear-and-jackson-post-hole-digger/ so a secure fixing can be obtained using a minimum of concrete. the hole left after digging out the old concrete "slug" is much larger and usually "soft" around the edges thus requiring silly quantities of concrete. Anyone got a good way of overcoming this?

I looked at the Metpost solution but thought it might be difficult to drive them into the remains of the post? I have used conventional Metposts quite successfully in the past but have found them difficult to keep vertical when driving them in due to tree roots and large stones deflecting them. Then when you straighten them they can move "off centre" which makes installing fencing panels difficult - fine for bespoke construction with individual spars etc though. Interestingly, perhaps? I constructed the fence across the bottom of the garden several weeks before I did the sides and I used conventional Metposts for two of the posts - which was easier due to my shed and a tree being in the way. The Metposts are still intact and relatively uncorroded, although the bottom of the posts have rotted and shrunk slightly. I could probably just remove the old posts and bang new ones into the sockets. The Post Buddys are very simple to install with really no dismantling of the existing structure required at all. I'm still just slightly sceptical about how they will hold up in high winds with these 6 foot panels acting on them like "sails" but they do actually feel pretty solid when you give them a wiggle. As you say, always interesting to see how other people set about solving problems.

Regarding the spade. I think I've mentioned before that I got an early retirement package from my employer and spent the last 15 years of my working life looking after a squad of learning disabled gardeners. (That was some change of career eh?) During that time we took over an abandoned allotment and formed an allotment club for our folk. One of the first tasks was to demolish an old shed which was so rotten it was beyond saving. The spade was in the shed and I was allowed to have it. I've often thought I bet it could tell a few tales if it could just talk to me! In fact the first thing I did with it was to use it to help digging over that allotment and it's a lovely tool to use. The digging was a nightmare as about half the allotment had been taken over by mare's tail. https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=257 This was an ongoing battle and we still hadn't completely eradicated it by the time I retired.

Daughter and her family have up and moved over to the other side of town where the other grand parents live for their second week of holidays. No rest for us though as we have our younger granddaughter staying for today and tomorrow. - She loves a sleep over with Granny and Granddad when she can have us all to herself, and we love it too. We were up early to go out and collect her and the route takes us past the Edinburgh East depot of Euro Car Parts so on our way back into town I stopped and bought a 400ml can of Plus Gas as my existing can is nearly empty and I'm soaking the rear shocker bolts on the Panda in preparation for dismantling them. The redesigned tin took me by surprise and it took me a wee while to realize that was what I was wanting:



The old livery is predominantly blue. I'm wondering if the contents have changed too? possibly less toxic content due to environmental/health and safety regs and maybe less effective as a result? I do hope not. By the way, £5.89p including VAT, which I thought was a good price for this larger size tin?

A little further down the road, opposite the dog and cat home, is my local Toolstation branch so I popped in there, accompanied by "Granddad's little helper" - she's quite a Tom boy and loves accompanying me to these sort of shops - and picked up a couple of those Heavy Duty Straps. I've done a direct comparison with the branded products my neighbour bought and find them very similar but slightly longer. Both are 30mm wide with the toolstation one being 1000mm long whilst the other is a little shorter. The Toolstation, although advertised as 5mm thick is actually 4mm whereas the branded product is 5mm. The Toolstation product is hot dip galvanized from the look of it whereas the other looks powder coated. The two noticeable features the branded product has which are absent from the Toolstation strapping are that the branded product has a series of grooves on the part which goes down into the old part of the post/concrete in the ground which probably helps it get a grip and there is an elongated screw hole in the top part which helps when truing up the old upper part of the post. Here's pictures of them both taken against the same slab for background so you can compare length.





I like the idea of the galvanized finish and the considerably cheaper price (I am Scottish after all!) of the Toolstation strapping but wonder if the grooving on the branded product contributes significantly to it's "holding" capability? Of course the Toolstation product is not specifically intended for this use so it'll be interesting to see if it does the job? Maybe the drilled holes will help it hold onto the old buried part of the stump?

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Daughter and her family have up and moved over to the other side of town where the other grand parents live for their second week of holidays. No rest for us though as we have our younger granddaughter staying for today and tomorrow. - She loves a sleep over with Granny and Granddad when she can have us all to herself, and we love it too. We were up early to go out and collect her and the route takes us past the Edinburgh East depot of Euro Car Parts so on our way back into town I stopped and bought a 400ml can of Plus Gas as my existing can is nearly empty and I'm soaking the rear shocker bolts on the Panda in preparation for dismantling them. The redesigned tin took me by surprise and it took me a wee while to realize that was what I was wanting:

View attachment 219719

The old livery is predominantly blue. I'm wondering if the contents have changed too? possibly less toxic content due to environmental/health and safety regs and maybe less effective as a result? I do hope not. By the way, £5.89p including VAT, which I thought was a good price for this larger size tin?

A little further down the road, opposite the dog and cat home, is my local Toolstation branch so I popped in there, accompanied by "Granddad's little helper" - she's quite a Tom boy and loves accompanying me to these sort of shops - and picked up a couple of those Heavy Duty Straps. I've done a direct comparison with the branded products my neighbour bought and find them very similar but slightly longer. Both are 30mm wide with the toolstation one being 1000mm long whilst the other is a little shorter. The Toolstation, although advertised as 5mm thick is actually 4mm whereas the branded product is 5mm. The Toolstation product is hot dip galvanized from the look of it whereas the other looks powder coated. The two noticeable features the branded product has which are absent from the Toolstation strapping are that the branded product has a series of grooves on the part which goes down into the old part of the post/concrete in the ground which probably helps it get a grip and there is an elongated screw hole in the top part which helps when truing up the old upper part of the post. Here's pictures of them both taken against the same slab for background so you can compare length.

View attachment 219720

View attachment 219721

I like the idea of the galvanized finish and the considerably cheaper price (I am Scottish after all!) of the Toolstation strapping but wonder if the grooving on the branded product contributes significantly to it's "holding" capability? Of course the Toolstation product is not specifically intended for this use so it'll be interesting to see if it does the job? Maybe the drilled holes will help it hold onto the old buried part of the stump?

Click to expand...

The black can version of plusgas has been around for at least 4 years as I've had several of them now

Thanks chris. Have you noticed any great difference in the performance of the product in the black tin compared to the older stuff in the blue tin?

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Thanks chris. Have you noticed any great difference in the performance of the product in the black tin compared to the older stuff in the blue tin?

Click to expand...

Can't say I've noticed much of a difference in use between them

Thanks chris, that's useful to know.

This guy uses a chain around the concrete lump and a high lift lever jack.

Fast forwards to about 5 mins id you dont want the whiteboard stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkZSvBW0DtE

If there is a huge lump of concrete, you could drill out the old rotted wood with an auger bit leaving a hole to drop the new post into. If you need to cut the post, put the cut at the top and protect it with a rain cap.

DaveMcT said:

This guy uses a chain around the concrete lump and a high lift lever jack.

Fast forwards to about 5 mins id you dont want the whiteboard stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkZSvBW0DtE

If there is a huge lump of concrete, you could drill out the old rotted wood with an auger bit leaving a hole to drop the new post into. If you need to cut the post, put the cut at the top and protect it with a rain cap.

Click to expand...

Yup Dave. Got the Hi-Lift jack, got the chain, got the digging bar - and a lot more. I completely agree this method makes removing the old concrete slug much easier but the video just highlights the problem I was talking about. Which is that you end up with a very large diameter hole! So when you install the new post there is no consolidated ground around it to support the post. It's not too bad if you're just doing a low fence but a 6 footer or more and the whole thing just starts waggling around in the first big blow that comes along! Filling up the hole with concrete is one answer and it works well but takes a lot of concrete and stuff like grass and plants then can't be grown near the post. I've taken to building shuttering around the bottom of the post to confine the concrete to a reasonable amount and then backfilling around the shuttering which works quite well but I was wondering if anyone else had a more "elegant" solution?

When I had to remove building site timber posts (which were in the wrong place and used HOOOGE lumps of concrete), I had to accept it was going to be a lot of work. The sledge hammer bashed up most of it and shuttering avoided using too much concrete around the new post. One headache was supporting the concrete posts while the lump in the ground went off. I used G clamps and strong bungee straps to strap on some timber that I could nail temporary supports to.

Not elegant but I believe the fence is still there 20 years later.

A wee update for you all on the Post Buddys. With last night's high winds - one of the neighbour's trampoline tried to literally "fly away" - I was fully expecting to find the Post Buddy supported posts to be at all angles when I went out to check them this morning. I was very impressed to find all 4 posts (we've now "Buddied" 4 of the rotten posts) still not only upright but also completely "plumb bob" vertical. Astonishingly not one has moved even a smidgeon! I really wouldn't have taken even a small bet on this for an outcome.

All 4 posts were originally installed with hand batched concrete so the concrete in the hole - surrounding the bit of the pole underground - is "proper" concrete and very hard. I think this has a lot to do with how well the Post Buddys are holding. I'd be interested to see how they hold in that ready mixed bagged product which is so popular these days (I'm too much of a coward to mention a brand!) as my perception is that it's quite a bit sandier and softer. I suspect they'd be moderately useless if no concrete was used at original install.

Get the fence panels fixed with those thin metal clips so the panels can blow out without taking the posts down. Concrete posts do the same idea with shallow slots each side allowing panels to pop out. You just have to wait for the winds to stop before you can raise them up and slide back into place.

Screw these to the post but full panels should not be screwed in. I guess trellis is ok.

I bit the bullet and went for H section concrete posts. But I did have a double fence because builders had run fences all around their side which gave me another 2ft of garden. They had used silly amounts of concrete so I had to get that out and use long posts and prop them up with 3 x 2s and clamps while the concrete went off. Thankfully, the lumps in the ground broke up easily enough and were carted off to the local tip in a trailer.

I was really lucky to find a fencing guy who has this (his own?) system.

The posts are 3mm+ galvanised steel (standard post sizes) and use the brackets as show for mounting all the woodwork and concrete gravel boards.

The posts are rot proof, blinking sturdy and will outlast me. Panels are easily removed, replaced or repaired. Best money I've ever spent on a fence.

Sadly I'm moving house so the new owners will benefit from my choice and money as there is a LOT of fencing!

I followed the thread and used Post Buddies on one of my Father’s fence post. They really don’t look like they’ll work, but very impressed so far.

To fit a new post would have involved breaking up the concrete path on one side and Block Paved Driveway on the other.

They took no time to drive in and have stayed solid throughout this Autumn and Winter.

Troubles with 500c said:

I followed the thread and used Post Buddies on one of my Father’s fence post. They really don’t look like they’ll work, but very impressed so far.

To fit a new post would have involved breaking up the concrete path on one side and Block Paved Driveway on the other.

They took no time to drive in and have stayed solid throughout this Autumn and Winter.

Click to expand...

I was quite prepared to accept they would fail to do the job and I'm still a little sceptical about them long term but they've now survived two very windy events without the slightest trace of any "lean" on the posts. They are so easy to install I think they are well worth a try for anyone and if they do fail to do the job you've not "wasted" much cash and you've not made digging up the old post any more difficult.

Has anyone tried drilling out the old post remnant and hammering a new post into the concrete?

Did once try drilling/digging out the old post. Actually helps a little for the next step.

I found that the Wickes Root?Fencing Breaker Bar (https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Professional-Solid-Forged-Fencing-Bar---1-8m/p/190344)

It is sturdy and heavy. Being flat blade pointed you ram/hit with force the inside corners of the concrete lump. The right angled corners are a weak fracture point and the lump then splits along the corners. You can the pull out large side fragments. Still heavy work but not as bad as trying to dig up a full concrete lump.