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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #16
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

For serious engine work we at least need a lathe and TIG welding gear. I don't have either - my excuse for why the X four bike engine has never happened.

This is Zoche doing stop starts. Lots of prop noise and the exhaust turbo keeps spinning.
https://youtu.be/CVMHlhjZ4aM

Sadly, they ran out of EU funds and faded away. Notice there's no wobble when it stops. It has a dry sump lubrication for the bottom end. Charge air does not go into the crankcase.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #17
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

I have the TIG, along with stick, wire feed(not MIG), and oxy-acetylene, along with a plasma cutter, so I can melt metal with abandon. I can run a lathe and a mill have but no where to put either. My neighbor across the road has a Bridgeport in his basement that he lets me use on occasion if I can weld something up for him. I don't want to tie his stuff up for my projects, though.

I ordered the CVT Tuesday night. I was told to expect it Monday but its out for delivery today. I can't do anything with it for another week but at least it will be here.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #18
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

Better equipped than me. An experimental engine crankcase would need a fair while on the lathe.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #19
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Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
This is Zoche doing stop starts. Lots of prop noise and the exhaust turbo keeps spinning.
https://youtu.be/CVMHlhjZ4aM
.
Interesting concept, I see doing some reading around it that they may still be doing r&d work on it but by all accounts it probably a bit dead now.

One of the things with GA aircraft is any engine/aircraft has to be certified. Or itís experimental, but even then the aircraft homebuilders canít just slap any old engine in it has to be authorised to work with an aircraft, then comes reliability and tuning, so they tend to be massively detuned to have massive reliability. New aircraft designs are moving towards compact and light weight water cooled petrol engines, while older aircraft all use some variation of a lycoming or continental engine.

Diesel wise there are some interesting engines like diamond who use Austro engines which are lightly modified mercedes A class Diesel engines, but in the current market is there an aircraft that would make use of that engine. Weight can have a big impact, when people fit turbines to planes that are normally piston aircraft they often have to move the much lighter turbine a long way forward to keep the aircraft in balance. Just to develop a turbine for use in GA aircraft I read recently cost about £25M in developing an existing product and then itís £120k per engine so itís a very limited market.

Nice idea for a 2 stroke diesel but itís likely one of those things that would be killed off by people sticking to what they know and what is known to have a proven track record of safety, rather than something completely new like that.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #20
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

It was expected that Avgas would become hard to find so folks began to look seriously at diesel and jet fuelled engines. The American Delta Hawk diesel has done OK, but they have a bigger market of private pilots and small aircraft passenger services. I guess if was too costly for piston engine buyers but not powerful enough for turbo prop buyers.

Zoche had a very simple design. The starter used a rugby ball sized high pressure air tank, fed by an engine driven compressor. They said a workshop air line or even a large bicycle pump could give enough to start the engine. The four rods on one crank pin was a clever idea. It's two 90į V twins back to back so has zero primary vibration and almost no torque vibration.

Power was 150bhp from 2.5 litres at 2,500 rpm. Just scaling up the speed to car diesel rpms would make it competitive with a car diesel. It had no electronics so I guess it would not meet road engine emissions. Who knows - the two stroke's natural clean air blow down, could be extremely clean. Rotax have done it with their direct injected E-Tech 800.

I loved the simplicity. A basic square crank case with four holes in the sides for cylinders and the corners knocked off like a sort of octagon. Then four pots bolted onto each hole. A bike engine could use motocross two stroke cylinders but feed the air through a hollow crankshaft. That way air goes straight between the crank wheels and out to the cylinders. Alternatively use a reed valve on each one with plumbing to connect to the blower. It would probably run just fine once air gets flowing. Two strokes breath as much via the exhaust suction effect (and porting harmonics) as they do from crank case pumping.
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 3 Weeks Ago at 18:34.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #21
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

Iím a bit confused by compressed air starting ? Thatís no good in the air if you, for what ever reason need to attempt to restart an engine and youíve not got enough air charged up to do it??

These days general aviation is going much the same way as cars with smaller more economic and cleaner engines.

When you can buy a whole car for £20k it doesnít make sense that your aircraft engine that was designed in the 60s with a displacement of 6+ litres and only 160hp should be costing £50k that said aircraft engines no matter what are not cheap but they donít need to be that big or heavy and they can be smaller, lighter and more powerful which is what Rotax are doing with their engines.

I donít know much about the cross 4 but I suspect firstly as an air cooled Diesel engine it would have had to be an iron construction. So very heavy, then it would have been two Stoke so notoriously dirty emissions wise. And again a fully mechanical engine tends to be more simple/dumb which means no clever management of the engine resulting in sub optimal running configurations, and remember a car ending might go from 0-3000feet altitude but a plane engine needs to be able to manage the fuel air mix maybe up to 17,000-20,000 feet if carrying O2

The concept is genius but Iím assuming there were a lot of problems theyíve not been able to overcome.

The hawk engines you mentioned seem to have hit a similar wall having not made it into any sort of series production and only found there way into a few prototypes.

The only real advantage to a turbine is massive reliability as there are so few moving parts, also power, they donít produce massive power on a little plane but for there size you can double your power for half the size and weight. They are much better on noise and of course vibrations but the costs are just insane. Something like a kit built Vans RV 10 might cost £50 for the aircraft but a turbine engine is going to be double that, versus £40k for a conventional new lycoming.

Something like that cross 4 or cross 8 would need some sort of aircraft designed around it, what I love though is the radial engine appearance.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #22
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

All I know about airplanes is that I'm in them almost every week and they're either an Airbus 32X or a Boing 7X7. Sometimes an Embraer or CRJ, too. And they're usually parked as far as possible from baggage claim.

The CVT showed up 4 days earlier than expected. Big thing.


I guess I better get some argon so I can make sparks while I'm on vacation.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #23
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

As you say homologation is a huge problem for new designs. Nobody wants dangerous aircraft engines but the clunky 1940s petrol engines still in use are not especially reliable. Seized valves killed a friend of mine. How often to road engines suffer seized valves?

The two stroke diesel is actually very clean. They only get dirty when over injected (as US truckers used to do with Cats and Detroits). The big advantage is the natural air blowdown when inlet ports open. The Zoche dry sump lubrication loses very little oil. Air does not go into the crank case. Saying that, Ford and later Rotax proved that a crankcase breathing stroker is not dirty if it's breathing clean air. Rotax cut the oil feed by 50% when they stopped washing it away with petrol.

During WW2, Rolls Royce worked on the Crecy engine. A sleeve valve direct injected petrol two stroke. Tests by Ricardo on V twin test mules estimated the 27 litre V12 could make 5000 bhp. However, the best engineers were kept on Merlin and Griffon development so "silly" errors like the oil pump being too small were not spotted. Also nobody noticed that sleeve valves were probably not needed.

It was overtaken by turbo jets and turbo props.
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:58.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #24
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

One step forward, two steps back. It was great to get the CVT four days early. Not so great that of three possible bolt circles on the crankcase, the CVT fits zero of them. Not the end of the world. Just one more facepalm and head shake that causes me to walk away for a few days and work on something else.

So, my 1977 Velosolex 4600 now has a new fuel tank and its engine lift is now working like it should.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #25
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

Is there space to fit an adapter plate?
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #26
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

Not really. I’m just going to layout where the holes need to be on the plate and make use of my drill press.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #27
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

Made the plate fit on the diesel today.


Drilling out holes 1, 2, and 4 were a piece o' cake. Hole number 3, grrrr. There was something in the casting at that spot that broke my 2mm bit(yes, I use metric drills on this side of the pond). I ended up hogging out a lot of material with a carbide dremel bit until I got past the broken bit and what ever broke it. Followed up with a 9mm. Holes 1, 2, and 4 lined up perfectly. Hole 3, eh. That's what rat tail files are for.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #28
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

This is the alignment I'm looking for between the driver clutch and driven pulley.


It looked like I needed a 32mm spacer for the driver but, alas, I need 36mm. So, I need to scrounge up a 4mm/.125" shim.

Got tired of messing with the engine, so started working some on the frame. Did some slicing and dicing.


Bent the tubes to almost fitting, too. Always fun working with an oxy-acetylene kit while wearing shorts.

Today, I rebuilt the front brake caliper. It was pretty stuck but came apart with 120psi of compressed air. Once those pistons started to move, they were coming out. Now. Cleaned up the crud in the caliper and pistons with my ultrasonic cleaner, then polished the piston and bores with a soft wire wheel on a dremel. Reassembled with all new rubber bits and mounted back on the bike with a new master cylinder. Letting it gravity bleed for a while.
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Old 12 Hours Ago   #29
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Re: Two Wheeled Stinker

Finally got that damn CVT figured out.
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