Going Electric.. present small car options.. confusing

Currently reading:
Going Electric.. present small car options.. confusing

I test drove the VW ID3 and was impressed with the ride, but it is a big car ...

Ridiculously, it's either a Panda Hybrid, a Tesla Model 3, or wait for a Tesla Model Y.

ID3 is a big car, but the Teslas are ok ?

VW ID.3 dimns: 4,261 mm L x 1,809 mm W x 1,568 mm H
Model 3 dimns: 4,694 mm L x 1,849 mm W x 1,443 mm H
Model Y dimns: 4,775 mm L x 1,850 mm W x 1,600 mm H
 
ID3 is a big car, but the Teslas are ok ?

VW ID.3 dimns: 4,261 mm L x 1,809 mm W x 1,568 mm H
Model 3 dimns: 4,694 mm L x 1,849 mm W x 1,443 mm H
Model Y dimns: 4,775 mm L x 1,850 mm W x 1,600 mm H

Agreed the id.3 is a big car compared to the panda but a smaller car compared to..... cars definitely on a par with the size of the model 3 same segment but it’s in no way bigger than a model 3. Also in my opinion the model 3 is pretty boring looking and that’s saying something compared to the Id.3
 
The Model 3 is a big car in width and length, but a bit low for my liking, hence the Model Y option.
The VW ID3 "seems" about as wide as Model 3, and if I get a big car the Tesla wins for me due to better performance and infrastructure and Tesla are technically well ahead of the other manufacturers on electric cars, and of course there is the speedometer position. I feel that Tesla's automated driving may be better, but after driving the ID3 I'm not so sure.
The ID3 is a lovely car, but this thread has highlighted to me what electric car could replace the cheap and cheerful, and very useful and practical, Panda ?
It's maybe not just low battery costs that are needed, but what keeps Pandas and the like so cheap (relatively) is they make so many, and this transition to mass production quantities is the difficulty, the ramp up of ICE cars to today's quantities happened over a period of over 100 years.
 
and of course there is the speedometer position.

I’m a bit confused by that statement, the ID.3 has a normal speedometer/dials behind the steering wheel, where as the Tesla has a tiny number on the corner of the infotainment system which is the actual speedo which almost every single journalist complains about when it comes to the model 3

I’m not sure on any specific electric car at the moment, obviously the Tesla will accelerate faster but other than that they’re all a bit boring and bland
 
AndyRKett
About 5 posts back in this thread I mentioned the digital speedo on the ID3 was not really far enough away from the driver, it's on the top of the steering column almost, not deep in the dashboard.
It's not a problem for a youngster, but I use single vision glasses and I thought it a bit uncomfortable at that distance.
The ID3 top model has a HUD iirc, but I've not seen the HUD in action, or any HUD for that matter.
The model 3 (which I haven't driven yet ) has the speedo in the centre of the dashboard ie to one side of the driver, which I think is further away.
 
Last edited:
Looked at the Renault Zoe again today.. online

Carwow : starting at £30k ..8k pa then 8 pence a mile what happened to 12k pa?

Top gear article says £20k/£24k.. has the profiteering got that bad already..?


Brexit. Everything is going up like crazy. Another year and we might be stable again.

Was reading a test which rated the small Toyota highly and it was c£22K I believe when tested. - Sorry that was a hybrid.
 
Update:

They are still overpriced with poor range :p


;)

I saw my 1st 'Polestar' yesterday..from the rear
Another Large Car

The EV at work was a chore on a trip back from Northern Europe Stops every 140 miles :eek:
 

Attachments

  • 20210317_065404.jpg
    20210317_065404.jpg
    2.4 MB · Views: 37
The cars are together enough that I could get one and it would be entirely useable.

But the cost of the new vehicle is pretty bonkers, I suspect at some point we'll replace both ICE cars with a single electric one which might make the cost a bit more palatable.

Unless you're in pcp lease cycle that costs 300 quid upwards and do significant miles there's no actual savings in running costs. My fuel bill would drop from 25 quid a month to a few quid! I'd be paying 350 quid + deposit for fairly low spec model rather than 0 on a car that realistically has done 90% of it's depreciation so it makes no sense at all until something good comes along or it's worth the effort.
 
Last edited:
The ID3 is definitely interesting, other companies now need to step up and make there own version of a medium sized hatch.

Interestingly I passed a new Mokka today outside the nearby Vauxhall dealer with all the logos on the side about it being electric, nice looking car, despite this one being a horrible blue colour
 
Thats my 110 mile a (£11) trip car.. next to a JAAAAG ( which would need plugging in on arrival)


No pics I'm afraid..

But the Polestar was in 'washing machine white' same as most EV's :rolleyes:
I thought that was a Jag, and was a bit bemused by the fact you'd said Polestar, I must admit, lol! Either way, that's a mighty nice daily you've got there, next to the jag! [emoji6]
 
The ID3 is definitely interesting, other companies now need to step up and make there own version of a medium sized hatch.

Interestingly I passed a new Mokka today outside the nearby Vauxhall dealer with all the logos on the side about it being electric, nice looking car, despite this one being a horrible blue colour

I still have reservations about how heavy they are not just ID3s but electric cars in general. It's not good engineering to overcome inefficiency with more inefficiency.

We're building massive amounts of high speed charging infrastructure (last one I saw was they installing 400kw chargers to allow for future HGV use) which will need power and will require upgrading of parts of the network and installation of on site storage.

What we could have done instead of blindly following Tesla is build lightweight, aerodynamic electric vehicles that make small batteries last longer and use less material to build. This would not require a 200kw charger because the battery wouldn't need to be massive to get a good range so charging times could be reasonable. However I'm sure they would be a hard sell as people tend to buy what they want not what they actually need.

In terms of current electric cars the E-2008 or Mokka are good enough that we could use them as only family car. They also aren't a bad weight at 1550kg though real world range could probably do with being about 50 miles better. I suspect that at mid life refresh this will happen given the PSA electric gear is under so many cars the economies of scale must be pretty good.
 
Last edited:
I still have reservations about how heavy they are not just ID3s but electric cars in general. It's not good engineering to overcome inefficiency with more inefficiency.

We're building massive amounts of high speed charging infrastructure (last one I saw was they installing 400kw chargers to allow for future HGV use) which will need power and will require upgrading of parts of the network and installation of on site storage.

What we could have done instead of blindly following Tesla is build lightweight, aerodynamic electric vehicles that make small batteries last longer and use less material to build. This would not require a 200kw charger because the battery wouldn't need to be massive to get a good range so charging times could be reasonable. However I'm sure they would be a hard sell as people tend to buy what they want not what they actually need.

Battery wise there a bit like the relationship between the amount of fuel you burn and the amount of CO2 you get out of it, in essence the amount of power you can get from a battery, and the amount of power you want the motor to be capable of, decides the range.

Yes you can make a car lighter or more aerodynamic to reduce losses, but the amount of impact that will have is fairly minimal, if the care is already reasonably aerodynamic.

Then there is the weight, these days everyone wants their gadgets so they can't take too much away.

I dare say if you took the running gear from something like an i.D3 and then fitted it to something that didn't have all the fancy heated everything electric windows all round, didn't have 4 usb charging sockets for everyones phones , maybe used lighter weight plastics, what you'd have is a better range but a car people would not buy because of it looking or feeling "cheap"

So really to get people to switch over they will have to make cars that look and feel exactly like cars do now, and just substitute the engine for a motor.

I believe they are even tailoring the software that controls the motor, to respond to throttle inputs like a petrol car would, as that's what people are used to. It also helps them save a bit of energy by not spinning the motor to full speed in a fraction of a second they can slowly feather the speed up, makes for a less exciting drive but most people don't know nor want to be able to do a tesla ludicrous mode 0-60 in 2 seconds.
 
Update:

They are still overpriced with poor range :p


;)

I saw my 1st 'Polestar' yesterday..from the rear
Another Large Car

The EV at work was a chore on a trip back from Northern Europe Stops every 140 miles :eek:

Is the IPace the work car ?

I can imagine having to recharge every 140 miles on a long trip would get pretty boring pretty fast, means I couldn't even get to my inlaws in one go without having to stop for a 2 hr recharge.
 
Battery wise there a bit like the relationship between the amount of fuel you burn and the amount of CO2 you get out of it, in essence the amount of power you can get from a battery, and the amount of power you want the motor to be capable of, decides the range.

Yes you can make a car lighter or more aerodynamic to reduce losses, but the amount of impact that will have is fairly minimal, if the care is already reasonably aerodynamic.

Then there is the weight, these days everyone wants their gadgets so they can't take too much away.

I dare say if you took the running gear from something like an i.D3 and then fitted it to something that didn't have all the fancy heated everything electric windows all round, didn't have 4 usb charging sockets for everyones phones , maybe used lighter weight plastics, what you'd have is a better range but a car people would not buy because of it looking or feeling "cheap"

So really to get people to switch over they will have to make cars that look and feel exactly like cars do now, and just substitute the engine for a motor.

Entirely valid, but my thoughts are along lines of, ICE cars are literally as efficient they will be currently, BEVs are not, the rate of improvement is exponential.

Take the Renault Zoe when first released it did about about 80 miles with a tail wind now somewhere over 200 miles. But the battery pack is no physically bigger than the original car (although it is heavier).

Imagine in the next generation if Zoe if similar battery improvements have occurred. You could fit a smaller battery with a higher energy density and keep the current range. Given the battery is the heaviest single component at 325kg or so if you can reduce it's weight it is going to help. If the car weighs less, brakes can be smaller especially with regen, suspension less beefy, crash structure can be lighter weight to pass the same tests. The knock on effects of that would then be increased range for the same battery pack.

But what's more likely is they'll keep loading them with more and more cells until they all weigh the same as a cruise ship and do 500 miles when the average journey is less than tenth if of that.
 
Last edited:
Entirely valid, but my thoughts are along lines of, ICE cars are literally as efficient they will be currently, BEVs are not, the rate of improvement is exponential.

Take the Renault Zoe when first released it did about about 80 miles with a tail wind now somewhere over 200 miles. But the battery pack is no physically bigger than the original car (although it is heavier).

Imagine in the next generation if Zoe if similar battery improvements have occurred. You could fit a smaller battery with a higher energy density and keep the current range. Given the battery is the heaviest single component at 325kg or so if you can reduce it's weight it is going to help. If the car weighs less, brakes can be smaller especially with regen, suspension less beefy, crash structure can be lighter weight to pass the same tests. The knock on effects of that would then be increased range for the same battery pack.

But what's more likely is they'll keep loading them with more and more cells until they all weigh the same as a cruise ship and do 500 miles when the average journey is less than tenth if of that.


Again its a relationship between the chemicals in the batteries and the electricity they make, so the Denser they make the battery, the more power they can store in it.

Battery technology is progressing fairly slowly but in essence if 1KG of battery = 1KW of power, then 2KG of battery = 2KW of power (made Up figures but you get the idea) then if you can fit that 2KG of battery into the same space as the 1KG battery you've doubled the battery capacity.... ok you've doubled your weight but at the moment you can't really reduce the weight of the battery and keep the same KW capacity.
 
Again its a relationship between the chemicals in the batteries and the electricity they make, so the Denser they make the battery, the more power they can store in it.

Battery technology is progressing fairly slowly but in essence if 1KG of battery = 1KW of power, then 2KG of battery = 2KW of power (made Up figures but you get the idea) then if you can fit that 2KG of battery into the same space as the 1KG battery you've doubled the battery capacity.... ok you've doubled your weight but at the moment you can't really reduce the weight of the battery and keep the same KW capacity.

I don't think the relationship is necessarily linear, what info I can find on the Zoe battery pack suggests it's increased in weight by about 50kg but more than doubled in capacity.
 
Back
Top