Domestic electrical question.

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Domestic electrical question.

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I have two 5ft flourescent tube strip lights in my garage, both have two tubes. I first fitted them about 35 years ago so they were the older "fat" tubes and they've worked absolutely fine, just needing the occasional starter cartridge or tube to be replaced.

A couple of years ago, after many years needing no attention, three of the tubes all failed within about a month of each other. I had one spare tube which I fitted to the unit in which both tubes had failed and went round to my local trade supplier to buy two more. To my surprise he told me these tubes are no longer made but he could - at considerable cost - still obtain old stock for me if I wanted. The alternative was to buy new complete units which use thinner tubes and are supposed to be more economical. The cost was very reasonable so I went for that option.

I installed them immediately and they've been working just fine until about 2 months ago when the one over my workbench - it would be that one wouldn't it! - started acting up. It's behaving exactly as if the starter is failing. Previously, when switched on, it normally flashes once or twice and then illuminates (as does the other one) However around about 25% of the times you switch on it will flash once and then stay off - the tubes don't fire up. Next time you try it may, or may not, fire up normally. It's completely erratic, some times it will start fine for days on end, sometimes it needs to be switched on and off half a dozen times before it will light. The other unit continues to work normally.

Bearing in mind these new units do not have a "plug in" starter is there anything I could be doing or should I just bite the bullet and buy a new unit complete? A quick on line check seems to reveal that a new unit with 2 tubes included comes in around the £35 mark.

PS - Sorry, the tubes don't seem to be included at that price. So, if I buy a "bare" unit can I use the tubes from the old fitting, which seem to work fine if I can get them to light off. Or, could there be something about the existing tubes which have caused this to happen?
 
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Spotted this, was hoping for some advice/answers, as I will sometime have a similar dilemma.
The thinner tubes I've inspected at B&Q seem to have the same length, and same pin spacings at the ends, so will fit into the 'fat' housings. We have one in the kitchen, thin tube in a fat housing, working well. Bathroom and garage both getting old.

New units seem to be LED 'tubes'. Seem a good idea, so that's probably the way I'll go. Although need to inspect well before buying. A few years ago, before I put the thin tube into the kitchen, I brought home an LED unit. Every flourescent tube housing I've ever seen has had the wires arrive near the centre, including the ones in the house now. But the new unit had the connector block at one end. Fine for a new installation, but a nightmare as a replacement, so I took it back. Looked once or twice since, but not recently, and each time connectors at the end. Can't see me lifting the bathroom floor to re-route the wiring, and definitely not adding little extensions within the housing. With the cables in the centre, you can replace with longer or shorter, and still be central. Madness.
 
Interesting Jim. I did try a "thin" tube in the old fixing but it showed no signs of lighting up. At that time the LED ones were expensive - look cheaper now though. I'm guessing the problem I now have with the new one is probably something to do with a capacitor - but I don't really know what I'm talking about and have no idea how to fault find it. I guess the simple answer is going to be to just replace the entire fitting. I'll have to take a look at these LED ones!
 
I wrote this earlier.. but its not appeared.. :eek:

Father in law had a similar plight

In the end he junked the lot..
And fitted conventional bulb holders
BUT with LED bulbs

The holders are oldfashioned.. so commonly stocked: cheap

The bulbs are a little warmer in light ( a fair range about now )

And not super expensive considering the savings in power.


We have also put up some LED chains of 'under counter' kitchen lights..
(Mini flourescent tubes really..)

I wasnt 'sold on the idea' initially.. but they are certainly bright enough..
 
I've recently changed all tubes in my workshop for LED alternatives. The difference was like night and day :D


Interestingly you can get them in cool white; warm white; or daylight white. I opted for the daylight ones and would never go back to the old flo' tubes.
These switch on and the light is instant; no waiting while they flicker into life and gradually get brighter as they warm up.
They each came with an LED starter - you MUST change the starter when you fit them but they go straight into my old flo' tube holders no problem.

I've also changed my under-cupboard kitchen lights but didn't like them being such a glaring cool white, so bought some orange colour 'gel' sheet (specifically for lighting) which I cut up and taped around them to warm them up. Really pleased with them
 
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If you're talking about the workshop strip lights no not at all - you literally don't change anything except the tube itself and the starter. You will get a LED tube very like your old flo' tube and fit it straight in to your holder, but you must replace the starter with the special one that comes with the new LED tube.


If youre talking about the kitchen lights, there's a bit more to these, but essentially I threw away all the holders (used all the same wiring, nothing changed there), and slaved the new ones in Here's a link to the kitchen ones:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B015LZ05V2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I don't think I got them on Amazon. but the LED strip lights I put in the workshop are these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ENERGIZER-...strip+light+replacement&qid=1600641463&sr=8-8
 
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If you're talking about the workshop strip lights no not at all - you literally don't change anything except the tube itself and the starter.

Thanks for the suggestion Max. I just looked at these but my units don't have separate starters like these - I think the starter is an integral part of the electronics inside the fittings? My old fittings, which used the "fat" tubes had starters like these but they are long gone into the skip.
 
Hmm My kitchen has a pair of old/new school strip lights so thin tubes but separate starters.

Might look into the LED conversion as it appears I'll be working in their for another 6 months at this rate (already done 6 months) and it would be nice to improve the quality of the light over winter.

Didn't know you could get conversion kits for them.
 
I've found my eyes get significantly less tired with the new LED lights; the old ones had a very, very slight almost undetectable flicker which I think developed as the tubes became old

https://www.diy.com/departments/dia...-led-light-bulb-l-1213mm/3663602670353_BQ.prd

So looking at these.

Doesn't mention anything at all about changing the starters and the frequently bought items that come with them would appear to be a standard starter.

I've got spare starters in the drawer (don't we all!) so don't actually know if it needs anything.
 
The starters would surely have to be changed :eek:


I'd be surprised if those are being sold as an upgrade without the LED replacement starter - I think you need to check further.

When I got my first pair of replacement LED tubes, I bought them locally and the guy that sold them specifically told me that the starter had to be changed or it will simply destroy the new tube in one go

EDIT:
I just took another look at your B&Q link - it may be that you have to buy a specific LED starter seperately (look at the 2nd review)
 
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The starters would surely have to be changed :eek:


I'd be surprised if those are being sold as an upgrade without the LED replacement starter - I think you need to check further.

When I got my first pair of replacement LED tubes, I bought them locally and the guy that sold them specifically told me that the starter had to be changed or it will simply destroy the new tube in one go

EDIT:
I just took another look at your B&Q link - it may be that you have to buy a specific LED starter seperately (look at the 2nd review)

Normally you'd go into the shop and collar someone but joys of local lockdown :D

I was expecting a different starter as well but despite stocking the Tubes there don't appear to be any L.E.D. specific starters on the B and Q site.

Which is why I was looking at the frequently bought with, Ones on Amazon e.t.c. do seem to have a specific starter but I'm not entirely comfortable getting 5ft glass tubes containing electronics delivered rattling round in the back of a van.

Edit:

It would appear new tech is available that utilises conventional starters

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/t8-led-tube-lights/
 
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LED tubes put all of their light downwards so you won't need as many fittings. I think you can get end clips for use with retrofit LED tubes but really why bother? These are not silly money. The 4ft gives a stated 4,800 lumens. For comparison a 50watt halogen headlight makes just 900 Lumens.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V-Tac-LE...398558?hash=item2ac452f95e:g:y2MAAOSwXwtdHgcc

LED floodlights are another option with or without PIR
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LED-Floo...536887?hash=item288fc1d5b7:g:fhMAAOSwwnpeX2rO
 
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....but I'm not entirely comfortable getting 5ft glass tubes containing electronics delivered rattling round in the back of a van.

Mine arrived extremely well packed in some very sturdy cardboard tubes, No damage- worked fine and are still going strong some 6 months on (y)
 
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Normally you'd go into the shop and collar someone but joys of local lockdown :D

I was expecting a different starter as well but despite stocking the Tubes there don't appear to be any L.E.D. specific starters on the B and Q site.

Which is why I was looking at the frequently bought with, Ones on Amazon e.t.c. do seem to have a specific starter but I'm not entirely comfortable getting 5ft glass tubes containing electronics delivered rattling round in the back of a van.

Edit:

It would appear new tech is available that utilises conventional starters

https://www.1000bulbs.com/category/t8-led-tube-lights/

These led units often have plastic tubes rather then glass
 
Now here's a strange thing. The twin tube flourescent I mentioned at the beginning of this thread has been behaving exactly as described - often flashing once and failing to light - until just a wee while ago when it's decided to light up most of the time, but not always. I can't understand why. I'm guessing the problem may revolve around a capacitor, but what do I know? The only thing I can think is that it's got a lot colder at night of late and the garage is unheated. Could temperature be a factor?

As it only fails to light occasionally now I've decided to just live with it and see what happens. Puzzling though, isn't it?
 
Yes I'd say temperature could easily be a factor. I know jack about electrics but I do know that if components get hot then they can act differently. You could be right - something such as a capacitor getting hot on start up as a result of say increased resistance stands to reason
 
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