4 litre pots have been around for years, often without being noticed. As said, I believe this is to appear competitive on price, whilst providing 20% less. Same thing happens with other products occasionally, some time ago my usual shampoo became 400ml instead of 500ml, but in the same pot, just underfilled. At the same time, they were running a campaign of 3 for 2, and the supermarket had 6 left of the 500ml pots. Same barcode! So I took all 6, for the cost of 4. By the time I'd got through that lot, they were long back to 500ml.

Most owners do not check their oil. Forum members are not 'most' drivers. When working with company car and van drivers, few know how to check the oil, despite having owned cars for years. To avoid problems due to lack of oil, the manufacturers now fit the sensors. If the car tells you it is low, and you do not attend to it, any failure is your fault. As so many drivers think the pressure warning is to remind them to top up, the sensor is a good thing. Once the manufacturer is confident of their sensor, they can save the cost of a dipstick. Leaving just the one holding the steering wheel, and they're trying to remove that one too. I'd still like a dipstick, reassuring.
How many times have you seen someone enter a petrol station, buy some oil, and then lift the bonnet to pour it in? I've seen this many times over the years, long before any level sensors. Triggered by the pressure light.

The sump plug on the Fabia is supposed to be replaced at each oil change. I could not see why, apart from the sealing washer being captive. A bit wasteful. At the annual service it got a new one, but midway when I changed oil and filter it went back in with no leaks. The undertray is easy to remove, then access to plug and filter very easy.

A guy I worked with decades ago said that Renault did away with oil filtration..and put all their efforts into air filtration

As that was where the majority of contimanants found their way into the oil

Anybody recall this.. possibly just before their 'turbo days'??

portland_bill said:

Most owners do not check their oil. To avoid problems due to lack of oil, the manufacturers now fit the sensors. I'd still like a dipstick, reassuring.

The sump plug on the Fabia is supposed to be replaced at each oil change. I could not see why, apart from the sealing washer being captive. A bit wasteful. At the annual service it got a new one, but midway when I changed oil and filter it went back in with no leaks. The undertray is easy to remove, then access to plug and filter very easy.

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Of course you're right there PB so the sensor is a good thing in this regard. But, like you, I question doing away with the dipstick altogether.

My Ibiza is the same regarding the sump plug. Recommended never to reuse it. Although I would prefer to replace a sealing washer if possible, there have been many occasions when I haven't - for various reasons - and never really had a problem with it leaking. Have to say I don't understand why they've made the washer integral with the plug? strange thing to do?

varesecrazy said:

O.P. doesnt drive a panda 100 hp though

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The same engine is also used in the 500.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

Of course you're right there PB so the sensor is a good thing in this regard. But, like you, I question doing away with the dipstick altogether.

My Ibiza is the same regarding the sump plug. Recommended never to reuse it. Although I would prefer to replace a sealing washer if possible, there have been many occasions when I haven't - for various reasons - and never really had a problem with it leaking. Have to say I don't understand why they've made the washer integral with the plug? strange thing to do?

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Probably to sell more sump plug and help assembly after all it saves 5 seconds in the engine plant

varesecrazy said:

A guy I worked with decades ago said that Renault did away with oil filtration..and put all their efforts into air filtration

As that was where the majority of contimanants found their way into the oil

Anybody recall this.. possibly just before their 'turbo days'??

Click to expand...

I've not seen this with renault.....
But Citroen made their H van with no oil filter rather specifying an oil change every 2000miles yes every couple of thousand miles. This in a commercial vehicle.

jackwhoo said:

I've not seen this with renault.....
But Citroen made their H van with no oil filter rather specifying an oil change every 2000miles yes every couple of thousand miles. This in a commercial vehicle.

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Back when they made the H-van tolerances in engineering were pretty poor and piston blow by was high and in a post war cheap van in France changing oil was probably cheaper and easier than replacing filters. Oil is very cheap until you start adding tax on.

AndyRKett said:

Back when they made the H-van tolerances in engineering were pretty poor and piston blow by was high and in a post war cheap van in France changing oil was probably cheaper and easier than replacing filters. Oil is very cheap until you start adding tax on.

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Even on more modern stuff - VW beetle (air cooled) Citroen 2 CV, Dyane, Ami, Maybe the 2 cyl Visa? Daf 33, 44, 46. Just to name a few. - funny those are all air cooled?

AndyRKett said:

Back when they made the H-van tolerances in engineering were pretty poor and piston blow by was high and in a post war cheap van in France changing oil was probably cheaper and easier than replacing filters. Oil is very cheap until you start adding tax on.

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Half of my family are French.
We think it was really so that the driver could have a nice break during the h vans regular 3000km service . A nice snack with a coffee followed by a very nice meal with a bottle of wine , more coffee and some Gitane cigarettes then snooze.
Then all is left is the the last hours wait for van to be ready to drive home in.
Possibly stopping on way home if feeling a bit peckish.

La vie en rose

One of my bikes (Honda XL250 K0) had a 1500 miles oil change interval. Forget to do it and by 1700 miles the oil level would be off the bottom of the dipstick. It only needed 1.5 litres of 20w50, but there was no centre stand so the job was a pain in the bits.

DaveMcT said:

One of my bikes (Honda XL250 K0) had a 1500 miles oil change interval. Forget to do it and by 1700 miles the oil level would be off the bottom of the dipstick. It only needed 1.5 litres of 20w50, but there was no centre stand so the job was a pain in the bits.

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I'm surprised it is 20w50. A very long time ago, when Japanese bikes were a new thing, a dealer with a new Honda franchise had a lot of grief with their first bikes.
The bikes arrived in a crate without oil. It was fitted with labels on the dipstick/filler, and the ignition switch and I think on the kill switch on the handlebar. All advising to fill with oil before starting.
Some of the bikes went into the showroom, so were built and prepared before any PDI. The guys doing the cleaning and polishing removed all those unsightly labels. When showroom bikes were sold, or just moved, a few were started without oil. Didn't run for long before the camshafts went tight in the head.
Oil spec was 10w40 or 10w30, but being used to British bikes, the mechanics weren't ready to trust thin oil, so used the thicker 20w50 or monograde stuff. When cold, the thicker oil didn't flow through the small oilways to the head as readily as it should, and more were damaged.
I think they damaged 5 bikes.

portland_bill said:

I'm surprised it is 20w50. A very long time ago, when Japanese bikes were a new thing, a dealer with a new Honda franchise had a lot of grief with their first bikes.
The bikes arrived in a crate without oil. It was fitted with labels on the dipstick/filler, and the ignition switch and I think on the kill switch on the handlebar. All advising to fill with oil before starting.
Some of the bikes went into the showroom, so were built and prepared before any PDI. The guys doing the cleaning and polishing removed all those unsightly labels. When showroom bikes were sold, or just moved, a few were started without oil. Didn't run for long before the camshafts went tight in the head.
Oil spec was 10w40 or 10w30, but being used to British bikes, the mechanics weren't ready to trust thin oil, so used the thicker 20w50 or monograde stuff. When cold, the thicker oil didn't flow through the small oilways to the head as readily as it should, and more were damaged.
I think they damaged 5 bikes.

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I'm with you , spec was 10w40. Which wasn't easy to find at the time and hence much more expensive than 20-50

portland_bill said:

I'm surprised it is 20w50. A very long time ago, when Japanese bikes were a new thing, a dealer with a new Honda franchise had a lot of grief with their first bikes.
The bikes arrived in a crate without oil. It was fitted with labels on the dipstick/filler, and the ignition switch and I think on the kill switch on the handlebar. All advising to fill with oil before starting.
Some of the bikes went into the showroom, so were built and prepared before any PDI. The guys doing the cleaning and polishing removed all those unsightly labels. When showroom bikes were sold, or just moved, a few were started without oil. Didn't run for long before the camshafts went tight in the head.
Oil spec was 10w40 or 10w30, but being used to British bikes, the mechanics weren't ready to trust thin oil, so used the thicker 20w50 or monograde stuff. When cold, the thicker oil didn't flow through the small oilways to the head as readily as it should, and more were damaged.
I think they damaged 5 bikes.

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I think Honda stopped making the XL250 K0 around 1973. Other versions continued.
https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_xl250_72.html

The local Honda dealer (Bob Minion, Derby) told me to use 20w50 oil. More recently they would have said to use "motorcycle" oil at 2x the price because its supposed to prevent clutch slip but they all ran fine on the ordinary stuff.

A friend's Honda CB125 OHC did 65,000 (on 20w50) before the cam bearings rattle got too bad. The bore, bottom end and gearbox were fine but a design fault in the cylinder head caused the cam bearings to fail. The drive side bearing had two cut outs to allow the cam to slide through. No surprises it suffered excessive wear. There was a needle roller and split ball bearing fix but not low cost as it needed specialist machining.
https://www.motorbikecatalog.com/auta_details1.php