varesecrazy said:

Its still years til I get away from ICE.

Cannot charge at my house
Cannot charge where I stay in the week

Potentially could charge at work.. but it would 'just' get me to the house 110 miles
And onto tesco on saturday night to charge while I shop.. praying that 20/30 mins will do another 120 miles

I cant see it

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Currently I could go for a plug-in hybrid, my current job is a short enough commute and a lot of it is stop/start so the only energy consumed would be accessories whilst I'm stationary.
I can charge at home but not at work, so I could do my Mon-Fri commute on battery. The hybrid aspect would cover the longer journeys I do semi-regularly.

The two main problems here are;
If I move house or change job my circumstances could change to not being able to charge or the commute being too far for electricity to be viable.

Upfront cost. I typically spend around £4k on a used car (when I'm not buying something old and silly), with the intention of getting 4-5 years before replacing. I can't get anything for anywhere near that price.

Even further up the market it makes no sense, the people who could best use a plug in hybrid..have low fuel bills so the car doesn't pay for itself unless you have it long time.

I've been going back and forth on the maths, I quite like the idea of an E-208 to replace our C3 but if you want a 200 mile or so range EV of any sort you cannot find one for less than 25k even used as they are quite a new thing.

While I'd love to play the big man on the interwebs and say I'll drop that cash on one...I don't have that lying about few people do and even if I did I wouldn't cos the depreciation would wipe out at least 40% of it. So the reality would be a PCP or a lease...with interest which would probably end up at about 300-350pm after spending my savings on a chunky deposit and not owning it at the end.

If I'm buying an ICE car then to get a something that fits my needs and is between 1-2 years old that's somewhere in the region 8-12 grand keep some savings with a car loan for the rest and that's about 200pm and I own the car.

I know expensive thing is expensive is not a shock. But both vehicles would be fulfilling the same role and even if we pretend electricity is free the difference covers my fuel bill easily and I have an asset at the end rather than the requirement to get another car or refinance it.

Even if they banned ice cars at the end of 3 years and it became worthless I've still spent less.

There is a company fitting replacement batteries for the Nissan Leaf but I can't find the link. It was MUCH less money than Nissan are asking for a new battery.

Maybe there's an owner forum who would know.

Teslas have a 300,000 mile battery so the car could potentially last two to three times as long as a petrol car. Those with the money to buy one are getting a steal over the long term.
Used Model 3s are still a long way away from what I would call affordable. However, while the £40K new asking price is eye-watering, the running costs over 5 years along with the lower depreciation makes it cheaper (as in less money total) than a £25K Toyota hybrid.

DaveMcT said:

Teslas have a 300,000 mile battery so the car could potentially last two to three times as long as a petrol car. Those with the money to buy one are getting a steal over the long term.
Used Model 3s are still a long way away from what I would call affordable. However, while the £40K new asking price is eye-watering, the running costs over 5 years along with the lower depreciation makes it cheaper (as in less money total) than a £25K Toyota hybrid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sOjXCQVSKA

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Monu diesels can do that sort of millage fine

I think most Tesla's won't even do 150k before getting scrapped once warranty has run out due to other electrical faults so as heating system or that big shiny touchscreen console

DaveMcT said:

Teslas have a 300,000 mile battery so the car could potentially last two to three times as long as a petrol car. Those with the money to buy one are getting a steal over the long term.
Used Model 3s are still a long way away from what I would call affordable. However, while the £40K new asking price is eye-watering, the running costs over 5 years along with the lower depreciation makes it cheaper (as in less money total) than a £25K Toyota hybrid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sOjXCQVSKA

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However if you don't care about tyre melting performance you could hop into a nice 2 year old BMW 3 series diesel for about 17k. It wouldn't lose anywhere near as much in depreciation wouldn't look like a Camry.

They give 32 mpg for the Camry if you're the sort person that does a lot of miles you could double that in a diesel saloon but this is an american video.

I know this isn't apples with apples but as production is so restricted there is only 8 for sale on autotrader nationally.

Until they are built in real numbers the few that are will be too expensive. Only those taking hits of finance will be in them..at which point it's depreciation not running costs that are the big ticket. The irony being that once demand is met the resale value will start dropping.

chris3234 said:

Monu diesels can do that sort of millage fine

I think most Tesla's won't even do 150k before getting scrapped once warranty has run out due to other electrical faults so as heating system or that big shiny touchscreen console

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Given that electric cars don’t lose money like petrol or diesel cars this is very unlikely. Even a tesla with 150,000 miles on the clock still has many thousands of pounds tied up in that batter pack. Even if broken into individual cells and used to repair other batteries or build other things like a power wall. There are over 7000 cells in a Tesla battery so there is a lot of value. Then there is that big touch screen which is worth a couple of grand, not to mention that Tesla’s are full of electronics and sensors, the car regardless of mileage is always going to be worth a lot of money, and it’s the second hand value that decides if a car gets scrapped.

OnLy once the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the car two fold then it might get scrapped.

The oldest 100,000 mile + 14 plate model S are still selling for around £30,000, these older cars where about £60,000-70,000 new so after 6 years have lost only around 50%

AndyRKett said:

Given that electric cars don’t lose money like petrol or diesel cars this is very unlikely. Even a tesla with 150,000 miles on the clock still has many thousands of pounds tied up in that batter pack. Even if broken into individual cells and used to repair other batteries or build other things like a power wall. There are over 7000 cells in a Tesla battery so there is a lot of value. Then there is that big touch screen which is worth a couple of grand, not to mention that Tesla’s are full of electronics and sensors, the car regardless of mileage is always going to be worth a lot of money, and it’s the second hand value that decides if a car gets scrapped.

OnLy once the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the car two fold then it might get scrapped.

The oldest 100,000 mile + 14 plate model S are still selling for around £30,000, these older cars where about £60,000-70,000 new so after 6 years have lost only around 50%

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And when they get over 10 years old and this touch screen breaks and it needs £4k to replace it?
Especially if other parts also need doing?
Many owner's will scrap the car so it gets broken down for parts


And who ever said anything about the car not being worth Money?
When thing's start going on these cars the parts will stack up pretty dam quickly especially post warranty period

Unfixable tech is worth next to nothing..

Ask the european owners of 8 series beemers..

The maindealers draw a blank.. its basically scrap value.. from £60k

Same will apply with anything either unfixable.. or just uneconomic

Its the tech.laden world we live in

chris3234 said:

And when they get over 10 years old and this touch screen breaks and it needs £4k to replace it?
Especially if other parts also need doing?
Many owner's will scrap the car so it gets broken down for parts


And who ever said anything about the car not being worth Money?
When thing's start going on these cars the parts will stack up pretty dam quickly especially post warranty period

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People keep crashing teslas, especially where ludicrous mode is fitted, because of this there is a budding industry in second hand parts. On of those screens can be £500 used.

Then again are you going to scrap a £30,000k car for the sake of a £4K screen.


Teslas are far from unfixable in some respects they are a lot like lego, big chunks can be swapped about the battery can be dropped and the motors taken out in a few hours.

AndyRKett said:

People keep crashing teslas, especially where ludicrous mode is fitted, because of this there is a budding industry in second hand parts. On of those screens can be £500 used.

Then again are you going to scrap a £30,000k car for the sake of a £4K screen.


Teslas are far from unfixable in some respects they are a lot like lego, big chunks can be swapped about the battery can be dropped and the motors taken out in a few hours.

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But they arnt going to be worth £30k in a few years
Just because the cars are expensive doesn't mean they arnt beyond be scrapped before there time especially in a few more years when the values drop more

Ok your statement was that they would be all scrapped at 150,000 miles, well the ones reaching that mileage are £30,000, obviously most cars unless something rare and valuable, get scrapped sooner or later.

In a few more years those Teslas now on 150,000 miles will approaching 200k

AndyRKett said:

Ok your statement was that they would be all scrapped at 150,000 miles, well the ones reaching that mileage are £30,000, obviously most cars unless something rare and valuable, get scrapped sooner or later.

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Not i said many and many will because a lot of owners may not do mega miles so could be 10 years old and o my have 75k millage

10 year old cars with only 75,000 miles on the clock are obviously scrapped all the time, I don’t at all see anyone driving around in a 10 year old + car these days...

Clearly your opinion in this case doesn’t match the reality even non electric cars That hold value or are something a bit different/special, generally avoid the scrap heap.

Remember the main people who actually scrap cars are the dealerships when they are traded in, if there is any value in the car it goes off to auction, and if there is value in said car someone will buy it no matter what the mileage.

Take landrovers for example, people don’t scrap them because they are old and need some work doing they fix them because no matter what needs doing buying a new one isn’t going to be cheaper than the cost of repairs.

AndyRKett said:

10 year old cars with only 75,000 miles on the clock are obviously scrapped all the time, I don’t at all see anyone driving around in a 10 year old + car these days...


Take landrovers for example, people don’t scrap them because they are old and need some work doing they fix them because no matter what needs doing buying a new one isn’t going to be cheaper than the cost of repairs.

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Oh I see.. landrovers are not cars...




Its 2019..
So 2009 and older are seldom seen..

Not around my part of the 'southeast'

I take your point.. but people can still pay fair money for a 2010 car..

They are not going to throw it away come MOT time

I'm thinking that electric cars, if looked after, may well have a longer life than ICE cars, due to fewer moving parts. Most new cars these days are well protected from corrosion. Will be interesting to see in 10-15 years time, until then, we can only speculate. As of now, those buying these expensive things are those that can afford it. The rest of us peasants will have to go back to walking behind the donkey cart. (Need wellies)

I have seen a couple of YouTube videos showing poor paint quality on Teslas. Door shuts and other partly hidden areas not painted well at all. I wonder if completely unseen areas have enough paint or corrosion protection. That might bite back in a few years.

Of course if electric cars last well, the market will become much smaller once we all have one. Not good news for any manufacturer. I wonder if they might all end up becomoing clones, like most washing machines.

Interesting times. The future will be different, but not necessarily as we think.

Early Teslas had production quality problems - hardly surprising as they were coming to the whole thing completely fresh. They had considerable help from automotive consultants to resolve the problems.

The evidence is they have it sorted. The USA small-medium luxury car sector includes all the top brands BMW, Audi, Lexus, JRL, etc, and Tesla. Anyone selling to that sector has to build cars that compete in all respects. In 2019, Tesla topped the sales with the Model 3 alone delivering 127,000 cars. The next best seller was BMW at 107,000 cars. BUT that was not just the BMW 3 Series. It was the total USA sales for BMW - all models.

If Teslas were rubbish build quality there is no way they could achieve those numbers.

300,000 miles is the expected battery life for a Tesla. Many will go well beyond that. and 500,000 miles is planned. The USA used car price guides are showing Teslas holding up far better than ICE cars. Long term that's likely to get better as reliability holds up. All manufacturers will have to compete. If they mess up, as Nissan did with the Leaf battery, they'll not survive.

DaveMcT said:

If Teslas were rubbish build quality there is no way they could achieve those numbers.

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Lets give this some context, (which I have done before with this very claim)

The Model 3 only launched last year and as such they had many thousands of back orders to fulfil, basically the 100,000 + cars they "sold" where already sold and new car sales figures are worked out off the back of cars newly registered.

So what tesla did was register a huge number of new cars but most had been sold for over 2 years. subsequent sales have not been as high.

You may well be right about Tesla numbers and I imagine BMW et al are hoping the same. However, build quality for the new cars is no longer being complained about and buyers are being taken from BMW, Audi, Merc and Toyota. People used to quality cars could be expected to be fussy (I would certainly be very fussy after waiting and paying what these cars cost) but there are no reports of such.

Tesla is not yet a really big player, but they are sucking the profitable end of the market. That will have far more effect on the big boys than making 10 times as many cheap cars. Look at the Nissan Leaf - the best selling EV by a country mile, but its still a flea bite compared to something that hits the high profit products.

Not seen many Teslas on the road up here yet - although they do have a showroom in Multrees walk with all the other "posh" shops I don't frequent - I did meet one coming towards me on quite a narrow street this week. They're big wide cars aren't they? surprised me.