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Old 5 Days Ago   #136
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
As an aside.. the goverment car.tax MOT checker now has proper working links:

GoUltraLow

New PHEV hatchback ( mini)
Old eco car (875cc punto)


Saves me £230 annually on 'fuel'

And of course the old car will make longer journeys a lot quicker.
I didn't know that website existed so thanks for pointing it out.
Apparently I would save £260 annually on fuel doing my weekly commute compared to an e-UP, which I would be able to do under the range of the e-UP potentially only having to charge every other day, this discounts my 6 weekly(ish) trip to visit the parents of 160miles where I'd need to stop and charge. Although I'm positive the website pulls the claimed MPG from cars which Fiat reckon is 61mpg or something ridiculous so the savings are probably higher.

Irritatingly you can't pick used EV's as I'm very unlikely to purchase new anytime in the foreseeable future.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #137
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

I can apparently save 745 quid a year...

Which is not enough to make buying a new electric car worthwhile.

Always been the case for me that fuel is a secondary cost it's depreciation that is actually that one that hurts and given the price of an electric defaults to 30k regardless of manufacturer unless you want to hire some of a Zoe by the time you've paid the additional up front and sucked up the additional depreciation it doesn't make any odds at all.

Starts at about 7 grand deficit..if we're being charitable will be worth 3k more at 3 years just absolutely doesn't work.

They always wheel someone out at some point to say I can't believe how much money I'm saving despite the higher cost! These people will be high miles with cars on the never never, otherwise your swapping a small fuel bill for a large initial purchase price currently.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #138
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Nissan burnt themselves (and their buyers) by having poor driving range, no effective battery management and not telling users how to manage their charging regime. Top the battery to 100% after every use (as most people did) and you will soon kill the battery. After a head start under Ghosn, Nissan seem to have walked away and none of the Japanese makers seem to have any interest in battery EVs.
Right now EVs are Chinese or high depreciation EU makers and a huge risk regarding depreciation. Tesla seem to be the only ones bucking that trend. Over a 5 years period a Model 3 extended range will cost significantly less than a £25K Toyota petrol hybrid, but who has the wedge to get into a Tesla?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #139
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Nissan burnt themselves (and their buyers) by having poor driving range, no effective battery management and not telling users how to manage their charging regime. Top the battery to 100% after every use (as most people did) and you will soon kill the battery.
This is one of the problems with small EV's. Early Nissan Leafs with high mileage are practically worthless as the batteries are knackered.

Its common knowledge that modern EV's only use a middle chunk of their battery (e.g. 25-75%). So to increase the range we need a substantially bigger battery to still use that mid-portion to avoid degradation.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #140
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

We had a DS5..(??)

Diesel hybrid as a course demo

It had the same basic kit of a starter generator.. but proper propulsion batteries.

Its the kind of halfway house I would end up getting..

But even at @8 years old its still effectively the same money my TA Cost me new..


Its still years til I get away from ICE.

Cannot charge at my house
Cannot charge where I stay in the week

Potentially could charge at work.. but it would 'just' get me to the house @110 miles
And onto tesco on saturday night to charge while I shop.. praying that 20/30 mins will do another 120 miles

I cant see it
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Old 4 Days Ago   #141
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Its still years til I get away from ICE.

Cannot charge at my house
Cannot charge where I stay in the week

Potentially could charge at work.. but it would 'just' get me to the house @110 miles
And onto tesco on saturday night to charge while I shop.. praying that 20/30 mins will do another 120 miles

I cant see it
Currently I could go for a plug-in hybrid, my current job is a short enough commute and a lot of it is stop/start so the only energy consumed would be accessories whilst I'm stationary.
I can charge at home but not at work, so I could do my Mon-Fri commute on battery. The hybrid aspect would cover the longer journeys I do semi-regularly.

The two main problems here are;
If I move house or change job my circumstances could change to not being able to charge or the commute being too far for electricity to be viable.

Upfront cost. I typically spend around £4k on a used car (when I'm not buying something old and silly), with the intention of getting 4-5 years before replacing. I can't get anything for anywhere near that price.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #142
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Even further up the market it makes no sense, the people who could best use a plug in hybrid..have low fuel bills so the car doesn't pay for itself unless you have it long time.

I've been going back and forth on the maths, I quite like the idea of an E-208 to replace our C3 but if you want a 200 mile or so range EV of any sort you cannot find one for less than 25k even used as they are quite a new thing.

While I'd love to play the big man on the interwebs and say I'll drop that cash on one...I don't have that lying about few people do and even if I did I wouldn't cos the depreciation would wipe out at least 40% of it. So the reality would be a PCP or a lease...with interest which would probably end up at about 300-350pm after spending my savings on a chunky deposit and not owning it at the end.

If I'm buying an ICE car then to get a something that fits my needs and is between 1-2 years old that's somewhere in the region 8-12 grand keep some savings with a car loan for the rest and that's about 200pm and I own the car.

I know expensive thing is expensive is not a shock. But both vehicles would be fulfilling the same role and even if we pretend electricity is free the difference covers my fuel bill easily and I have an asset at the end rather than the requirement to get another car or refinance it.

Even if they banned ice cars at the end of 3 years and it became worthless I've still spent less.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #143
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

There is a company fitting replacement batteries for the Nissan Leaf but I can't find the link. It was MUCH less money than Nissan are asking for a new battery.

Maybe there's an owner forum who would know.
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Teslas have a 300,000 mile battery so the car could potentially last two to three times as long as a petrol car. Those with the money to buy one are getting a steal over the long term.
Used Model 3s are still a long way away from what I would call affordable. However, while the £40K new asking price is eye-watering, the running costs over 5 years along with the lower depreciation makes it cheaper (as in less money total) than a £25K Toyota hybrid.

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Old 3 Days Ago   #145
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Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Teslas have a 300,000 mile battery so the car could potentially last two to three times as long as a petrol car. Those with the money to buy one are getting a steal over the long term.
Used Model 3s are still a long way away from what I would call affordable. However, while the £40K new asking price is eye-watering, the running costs over 5 years along with the lower depreciation makes it cheaper (as in less money total) than a £25K Toyota hybrid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sOjXCQVSKA
Monu diesels can do that sort of millage fine

I think most Tesla's won't even do 150k before getting scrapped once warranty has run out due to other electrical faults so as heating system or that big shiny touchscreen console
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Old 3 Days Ago   #146
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Quote Originally Posted by DaveMcT View Post
Teslas have a 300,000 mile battery so the car could potentially last two to three times as long as a petrol car. Those with the money to buy one are getting a steal over the long term.
Used Model 3s are still a long way away from what I would call affordable. However, while the £40K new asking price is eye-watering, the running costs over 5 years along with the lower depreciation makes it cheaper (as in less money total) than a £25K Toyota hybrid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sOjXCQVSKA
However if you don't care about tyre melting performance you could hop into a nice 2 year old BMW 3 series diesel for about 17k. It wouldn't lose anywhere near as much in depreciation wouldn't look like a Camry.

They give 32 mpg for the Camry if you're the sort person that does a lot of miles you could double that in a diesel saloon but this is an american video.

I know this isn't apples with apples but as production is so restricted there is only 8 for sale on autotrader nationally.

Until they are built in real numbers the few that are will be too expensive. Only those taking hits of finance will be in them..at which point it's depreciation not running costs that are the big ticket. The irony being that once demand is met the resale value will start dropping.
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Quote Originally Posted by chris3234 View Post
Monu diesels can do that sort of millage fine

I think most Tesla's won't even do 150k before getting scrapped once warranty has run out due to other electrical faults so as heating system or that big shiny touchscreen console
Given that electric cars donít lose money like petrol or diesel cars this is very unlikely. Even a tesla with 150,000 miles on the clock still has many thousands of pounds tied up in that batter pack. Even if broken into individual cells and used to repair other batteries or build other things like a power wall. There are over 7000 cells in a Tesla battery so there is a lot of value. Then there is that big touch screen which is worth a couple of grand, not to mention that Teslaís are full of electronics and sensors, the car regardless of mileage is always going to be worth a lot of money, and itís the second hand value that decides if a car gets scrapped.

OnLy once the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the car two fold then it might get scrapped.

The oldest 100,000 mile + 14 plate model S are still selling for around £30,000, these older cars where about £60,000-70,000 new so after 6 years have lost only around 50%
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Old 3 Days Ago   #148
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Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Given that electric cars donít lose money like petrol or diesel cars this is very unlikely. Even a tesla with 150,000 miles on the clock still has many thousands of pounds tied up in that batter pack. Even if broken into individual cells and used to repair other batteries or build other things like a power wall. There are over 7000 cells in a Tesla battery so there is a lot of value. Then there is that big touch screen which is worth a couple of grand, not to mention that Teslaís are full of electronics and sensors, the car regardless of mileage is always going to be worth a lot of money, and itís the second hand value that decides if a car gets scrapped.

OnLy once the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the car two fold then it might get scrapped.

The oldest 100,000 mile + 14 plate model S are still selling for around £30,000, these older cars where about £60,000-70,000 new so after 6 years have lost only around 50%
And when they get over 10 years old and this touch screen breaks and it needs £4k to replace it?
Especially if other parts also need doing?
Many owner's will scrap the car so it gets broken down for parts


And who ever said anything about the car not being worth Money?
When thing's start going on these cars the parts will stack up pretty dam quickly especially post warranty period
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Re: Peugeot Fiat

Unfixable tech is worth next to nothing..

Ask the european owners of 8 series beemers..

The maindealers draw a blank.. its basically scrap value.. from £60k

Same will apply with anything either unfixable.. or just uneconomic

Its the tech.laden world we live in
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Old 3 Days Ago   #150
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Quote Originally Posted by chris3234 View Post
And when they get over 10 years old and this touch screen breaks and it needs £4k to replace it?
Especially if other parts also need doing?
Many owner's will scrap the car so it gets broken down for parts


And who ever said anything about the car not being worth Money?
When thing's start going on these cars the parts will stack up pretty dam quickly especially post warranty period
People keep crashing teslas, especially where ludicrous mode is fitted, because of this there is a budding industry in second hand parts. On of those screens can be £500 used.

Then again are you going to scrap a £30,000k car for the sake of a £4K screen.


Teslas are far from unfixable in some respects they are a lot like lego, big chunks can be swapped about the battery can be dropped and the motors taken out in a few hours.
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