UK map according to Remainers


UK map according to Leavers

If there's a joke here, I don't get it

Eklipze3k said:

If there's a joke here, I don't get it

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Seconded...

And why are they pointing at Czechia ? Looking at holidays in Prague ?

One puts UK in the middle of Europe the other flies the Union flag. Neither can see what the other is so worried about.

Hooo boy, this thread is gonna go off the rails. I'll throw the first switch I guess.
I voted Remain, I don't see us in the middle of Europe, certainly didn't before the vote anyway, more like one of many 'knights' sat around the round table. Could quite happily fly a Union flag if I wanted to I'd prefer to fly a Saltire though.
As for not seeing what the other is worried about, Leavers (generalising, since that's the overwhelming theme of this thread) are worried about unchecked immigration and being dictated rules and regulations by other countries. They fail to see that people will still immigrate to this country, with or without us being in the EU, and that a lot of the regulation they don't like will probably happen anyway, only now we won't be able to vote on it, so yeah, well done, morons.

Eklipze3k said:

morons.

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I thought it was against Forum rules to throw insults etc. at other members

I'm not calling out anyone specifically, just generalising, in the spirit of the OP.

Not sure that map is up to date..

Although one of mine only shows 12 e.u. members.. and Germany with 48% of the votes.

Can I chuck in a vote for sick of the whole damn thing.

So much money wasted chasing unicorns so far. I know who I work for had to put in a **** tonne of work for the original leaving date..which then moved. Obviously if it gets triggered before October 31st more work to be done. Sure every company that has customers, employees and suppliers in Europe wishes it would just **** off.

Most companies work off a long term plan..quite hard to do that when you don't even know if you will be facing tariffs.

That and the whole thing seems to have triggered a race to the bottom in politics. Bo Jo is a cretin, is regularly exposed as such but somehow nobody cares. Hunt is...the Guy who literally wrote the book on dismantling the NHS. The Brexit LTD are a Joke..and yet the other end of the spectrum is far to busy having it's own problems to make headway. Literally seems as though all the Conservatives and Brexit party want to do is force Brexit through so they can privatise and sell everything that isn't nailed down..and continue to avoid taxes on the proceeds. But the other side is so inept at making capital on that that it doesn't matter.

The new conservative leader could be Vlad the Impaler and theres still a large number of people who would never vote for Corbyn.

Aye, the criminal - to my mind - waste of money which has taken place, and I'm sure there will be a lot lot more. It could have been used to such good effect, I'm thinking about food banks and the kids my wife and her pal in the admin office used to buy breakfast for at our local school because all they'd had for breakfast was a bag of crisps. I could go on a lot on this front. But of course our esteemed, well healed, leaders will never have to face these things in their own houses.

My position for many years, since I became a grown up a few years ago anyway? - I'm now in my 70's - is for the status quo and then to work from within to get the best compromise which benefits you. I found that worked well in every job I've had and can't see why it wouldn't work here. Just decide where you want to be and keep chipping away. Throwing all your toys out of the pram whilst bawling at your siblings and then asking them to pick them up again for you just doesn't have a good outcome.

I voted to stay part of the Union in the Scottish independence vote and to remain (like the majority of Scots. Admittedly the Scottish vote was only a small majority but then the overall EU vote only went the other way by a small amount didn't it) I would have been more content to capitulate had the vote been a large majority but I think the situation we now find ourselves in has driven such big divisions and bitter feelings between us all that no matter where we go with this it's going to take a very long time - maybe a generation or so - for a sense of togetherness to return. There also seems to me to be an imbalance in the importance and investment that gets lavished upon that south eastern corner of our country.

The way things are just now I think there is a very real risk of Scotland splitting from the union - I hear more and more people who previously were for staying in now taking interest in how things might be with us out and a large part of it involves the perceived arrogance of The "high heid yins" down in that south eastern corner. I rather surprised myself by voting SNP at the last local elections and I think I might actually be prepared to vote that way again, maybe?

Cards on the table I voted to leave because I do not want ever closer union, an EU army and being forced into the Euro. I consider the EU only pretends to have any sort of democracy.

HOWEVER, I did not vote for a duplicitous Prime Minister to agree a deal that makes the UK a colony of the EU. The WA deal really is as bad as it gets and would be a terrible mistake. Unfortunately we have a few MPs who for some reason ar very keen we should have this done to us. I do not believe in conspiracy theories but this really does smell like one.

Leaving is not really a big deal if its properly planned for. The issue is that May has done no planning and has bu99ered the whole country about so nobody can do any planning. She was clearly hoping to bounce her horrible new treaty through Parliament.

If we pull the plug now on Brexit the last three years will be wasted and the genie is now out of the bottle so it would never end there. The Conservative Party would be gone leaving Brexit Party and UKIP to agitate ever more for Brexit. Labour would be trashed because they have ignored their heartlands in England and Wales. The Liberals will swing whichever way gets them into power. God help us all.

If we go for no deal (which looks like the only viable option) there will actually be a lot of side deals so it wont be "Crashing Out" as the BBC love to say. The trade with EU amounts to 8% of GDP and up to 50% of that could (operative word "could) be damaged. So in a worst case we lose 50% of 8% = 4%. I think that's unlikely as the EU countries will refuse to trade with us though there might be some tariffs. The EU is not a country. Not yet anyway.

May's massive error of judgment (in a premiership where every move she made was the wrong one) was to be dishonest about the real issues. In summer 2016 she could have said, "Look folks you voted to leave but on reflection we simply cannot do it. The damage would be too great". People like me would have had to suck it up but I'm sure we would have done just that and gone on with our lives.

Instead she tried to pull a fast one. She badly upset the EU who are now heartily sick of the UK messing them about and she's dramatically hardened opinion on Brexit. England and Wales are more pro Brexit now than they ever were. Businesses cannot plan properly because they still do not know what is going to happen.

We have been led by total donkeys to the point that actually leaving is now our only viable option. The EU will only accept their document which makes the UK a virtual colony of the EU or No Deal which is the other half of Article 50. Even if we asked to scrap Brexit, the EU would still make the same demands. They will not lose face by scrapping a 565 page legal sentence.

DaveMcT said:

We have been led by total donkeys to the point that actually leaving is now our only viable option. The EU will only accept their document which makes the UK a virtual colony of the EU or No Deal which is the other half of Article 50. Even if we asked to scrap Brexit, the EU would still make the same demands. They will not lose face by scrapping a 565 page legal sentence.

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Well there is another option,

Revoke article 50, and say "we gave it go. we can't make it work and we'd rather not sell off everything to the highest bidder in the cause of sovereignty"

At that point we can get on with vetoing the stuff we don't want..and maybe businesses can think about not moving out the country.

Despite this ongoing catastrafudge the economy somehow hasn't tanked. 3 years of business as usual would have probably been pretty ****ing amazing.

StevenRB45 said:

Well there is another option,

Revoke article 50, and say "we gave it go. we can't make it work and we'd rather not sell off everything to the highest bidder in the cause of sovereignty"

At that point we can get on with vetoing the stuff we don't want..and maybe businesses can think about not moving out the country.

Despite this ongoing catastrafudge the economy somehow hasn't tanked. 3 years of business as usual would have probably been pretty ****ing amazing.

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To my knowledge no EU country has an absolute veto. Thankfully / luckily when the EU joined the EEC (let you newbies to Europe look that one up) and later migration to the EU the UK had retained (for some) critical rights. e.g. not adopting the Euro, hot having to drive on the left, etc. etc.

I've lived in the EU (dating back to before the EU), travel there every year, etc. etc. and to be quite honest THEY ARE NOT a European Union of States in reality but a bunch of states bounded by EU history and at the same time all doing their own thing where and when they can.

If you thought UK politics was complex then EU politics both state national and EU central is the biggest cesspit of politicians and bureaucrats one could ever imagine.

I'm not saying the EU has done no good etc. but all countries can do combined good for all without having to join some quango club dictated to or under the control / political influence of other non native national parties.

Going to bed now in my bunker

Well guys, looks like Boris is going to get the job done despite all the usual lash back. Should be entertaining!!! * hides in bunker *

SB1500 said:

Well guys, looks like Boris is going to get the job done despite all the usual lash back. Should be entertaining!!! * hides in bunker *

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Boris being Boris..

It won't be the job you're thinking of.

If it's bringing down the government and causing yet more uncertainty..then yes he's perfectly qualified to do that.

Otherwise he's incapable of delivering a pizza nevermind Brexit.

StevenRB45 said:

Well there is another option,

Revoke article 50, and say "we gave it go. we can't make it work and we'd rather not sell off everything to the highest bidder in the cause of sovereignty"

At that point we can get on with vetoing the stuff we don't want..and maybe businesses can think about not moving out the country.

Despite this ongoing catastrafudge the economy somehow hasn't tanked. 3 years of business as usual would have probably been pretty ****ing amazing.

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I detest where the EU is heading and I hate there is no democratic examination of the direction of travel. The latest president "elected" from a list of one. Even the USSR did better than that.


But regardless of my opinions the genie is now out of the bottle and Both Conservative and Labour parties would crash and burn if nothing changes. We would be for-ever locked between Leave promoting Brexit Party and Remain promoting Liberals. They will never agree on anything and the uncertainty would drag on for ever.

The whole mess was caused by establishment hubris. They thought the gormless voters could be scared off with project fear and legal threats against financial donors to the Leave campaign.

The public saw it all for what it really was and voted to "stuff it to the man" (as the Irish would say). Hammond is still doing it with his ridiculously skewed economic projections.


May was strongly advised to NOT trigger Article 50 to soon and especially with no forward plans. She failed (or refused) to listen and triggered anyway. She failed to understand the European position and immediately put UK on the back foot. The EU puts its theology of "ever closer union" above everything. UK rolls in like amateurs with an economic argument and of course gets told to do one unless they follow the EU's rules. Chosen of course to deliberately put the end before the means and clog everything in procedure.

All UK had to do was say from the outset - "Hey we want to leave. Let us go with a neat trade deal and you can bring forward your closer union plans and we can't get in your way. Do we have a plan? How could even the most ardent EU theologists oppose that?


The whole thing was crashed by appeasing amateurs on the UK side who simply rolled over and intransigence on the EU side. Barnier could not believe his luck and went in for the kill and over-cooked it. He has been just as much of an amateur in the opposite direction.


Now we have far too many faces (on all sides) put out of joint for any going back. You really could not make it up.

Would that be Mr Barnier or Mr Barrier

s130 said:

Would that be Mr Barnier or Mr Barrier

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I think my spelling is correct but letters get swapped about by Apple's annoying spelling mangler. Saying that, the man is a barrier to any sort of fair and reasonable progress over negotiations. He is also unbelievably up himself. UK has to make "sufficient progress". What the heck does "sufficient" mean in this context and how insultingly condescending. The British "negotiators" meekly took it on, so it was clear from the outset where things were heading.

I know nothing about such negotiations but could have run a coach and horses legal argument through the wording. As I'm sure could anyone on here.

It's nearly time to welcome Boris as our next PM, Just waiting for the backlash on here and across our society at large.

Good thing being... Boris is criticised even at the best of times, won't stop him one bit from getting the job done!

Even a broken clock shows the right time twice a day ...