SB1500 said:

It's nearly time to welcome Boris as our next PM, Just waiting for the backlash on here and across our society at large.

Good thing being... Boris is criticised even at the best of times, won't stop him one bit from getting the job done!

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Are you aware of his track record?

He makes Teresa May look competent, last week he literally stood giving a speech waving a kipper...going on about how the EU is making life difficult for kipper producers.

Small issue with this speech, the EU law he was talking about does not refer to kippers. Also rules for kippers are set by the UK government...Also the kipper was from the isle of man..which isn't part of the EU and isn't subject to EU law.

The same week he also managed to give an interview where he clearly demonstrated he'd not read what he was he meant to be talking about (only the piece of law he was basing his whole no deal strategy on..not like it was important or anything). Being the true statesman that he is he obviously immediately attacked the character of the interviewer. Because pointing out facts that make you him look like the absolute clown he is..well that's defeatist.

This is just this week..if I went through his full track record this post would be dissertation length.

I don't doubt he could have found this information before these incidents..he just made the choice not to bother as hell at least 50% of the population will swallow it without a second thought.

StevenRB45 said:

Are you aware of his track record?

He makes Teresa May look competent, last week he literally stood giving a speech waving a kipper...going on about how the EU is making life difficult for kipper producers.

Small issue with this speech, the EU law he was talking about does not refer to kippers. Also rules for kippers are set by the UK government...Also the kipper was from the isle of man..which isn't part of the EU and isn't subject to EU law.

The same week he also managed to give an interview where he clearly demonstrated he'd not read what he was he meant to be talking about (only the piece of law he was basing his whole no deal strategy on..not like it was important or anything). Being the true statesman that he is he obviously immediately attacked the character of the interviewer. Because pointing out facts that make you him look like the absolute clown he is..well that's defeatist.

This is just this week..if I went through his full track record this post would be dissertation length.

I don't doubt he could have found this information before these incidents..he just made the choice not to bother as hell at least 50% of the population will swallow it without a second thought.

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At this point, a lot of people just want the job done. If he can do that, I'm happy for him. He's not going to be weak or swayed by the media / critics how May and most other politicians are. Look at Trump in the US, sure, a real j*ckass, but he gets things done and look, 3 years later, still the world hasn't ended.... :idea:

If I went to a doctor with a sore throat and came out with cancer, aids and cholera I wouldn't think to myself "Well, at least I'm not dead"

Edit: My point being, in case it wasn't clear, that the world may not have ended but it's so much worse than before he was president.

He may get sh*t done, but it's stupid sh*t that isn't helping anyone except the obscenely rich.

Eklipze3k said:

If I went to a doctor with a sore throat and came out with cancer, aids and cholera I wouldn't think to myself "Well, at least I'm not dead"

Edit: My point being, in case it wasn't clear, that the world may not have ended but it's so much worse than before he was president.

He may get sh*t done, but it's stupid sh*t that isn't helping anyone except the obscenely rich.

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I suppose it's the same problem you guys have with Brexit, but I don't know how to put it any simpler....

The people voted for him/it. So, it's happening

I hope that in time, that becomes more easy to understand.

Thankfully two jokes sum up the current situation. I'm not going to pretend I wrote either..

The 1st..

Do you want a blowjob?
Yes.
It's from a piranha.
Then no.
Can't change your mind now. Blowjob means blowjob.


Second.

A banker, a worker, and an immigrant are sitting at a table with 20 cookies.

The banker takes 19 cookies and warns the worker: “Watch out, the immigrant is going to take your cookie away.”

Is this simple enough for you to understand why a great many people find the rush to financial suicide to be somewhat nonsensical?

Understanding that a thing is happening is not the same as understanding why anyone with a conscience would want it to

You know, there’s nothing wrong with disagreeing and choosing your own set of stories and facts etc to base it on (same as anyone wanting out is also doing). It’s good that both sides are represented.

But to act as if anybody who is on the other side is a total idiot, of the tallest order, is where I’m disappointed. Your viewpoints aren’t proven to be any more valid. None of you guys are idiots. But just because half of the country thinks different to you, you shouldn’t treat them like idiots. They’re not.

There is surely a large percentage of people who want out for idiotic and bigoted reasons. Just like there are a large percentage of people wanting to stay in the EU for idiotic and bigoted reasons.

But if you guys are being honest, I’m sure you understand that there are equal number of valid, logical, rational and beneficial reasons to leave as well as stay. It’s not black and white in your favour or mine.

There’s a LOT of bad in leaving. But also, there’s a lot of GOOD. In us folk who want out, we’re placing our highest values in different areas and willing to put up with the bad sides of leaving as a result. Clearly, you guys don’t personally value some of the reasons some of us want out. That’s fine.

But don’t act like there is zero merit in some of the reasons for half of the population to want out. It’s no more ‘idiotic’ than staying in.

You know, this is the issue with the US and Trump too. A very vocal crowd of people who are against him are making out anybody who could possibly like him to be idiots. Just so turns out; those idiots are the majority of the US population who are rarely represented by mainstream media and whose problems are ignored. He speaks to them, and they are America.

I reckon it’s the same with the UK. The loud side are trying to scaremonger about leaving and making out the ones who want to leave to be nothing but idiots. But the people have spoken; and it’s happening. And though it’ll be tough on some of the wealthy in London etc, they need to accept that the majority of the country clearly feel their reasons for wanting to leave (valid) are more worthy of the nations next steps than those reasons the big companies as an example (valid) want to stay.

For you guys / those companies / interests to just write off anyone with that different opinion on the matter as ‘idiots’? Well, maybe reconsider where the true problem lays.

I’m certainly not an idiot, and I know there are probably very few on this forum in all honesty. I want out of the EU, and maybe you don’t. I won’t imply that you guys are idiots. There’s a lot of truth and validity in what the remainers say. Just try and understand there’s also truth and validity in what brexiteers say. We’re all adults. And we’re not idiots.

SB1500 said:

I’m certainly not an idiot, and I know there are probably very few on this forum in all honesty. I want out of the EU, and maybe you don’t. I won’t imply that you guys are idiots. There’s a lot of truth and validity in what the remainers say. Just try and understand there’s also truth and validity in what brexiteers say. We’re all adults. And we’re not idiots.

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How very true

s130 said:

How very true

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I always try to use a bit of respect and recognise the other persons point as just as important as my own, even if I disagree.

StevenRB45 said:

Thankfully two jokes sum up the current situation. I'm not going to pretend I wrote either..

A banker, a worker, and an immigrant are sitting at a table with 20 cookies.

The banker takes 19 cookies and warns the worker: “Watch out, the immigrant is going to take your cookie away.”

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The financial industry are better prepared for Brexit than the rest of the country, but even there preps are far more developed than we are being led to believe.

The biggest problem with Brexit is that people supporting Remain largely believe that those wanting to leave are doing it to stop immigrants. This is completely wrong and put in place by London centered media who have never been north of Northampton and think everyone north of there is a narrow minded bigot. Theresa May accepted Barnier's new treaty virtually word for word but she was keen to make sure UK control of immigration was allowed at the cost of locking the country down like a colony. She never asked for a Canada style trade deal (though one was offered) and she always refused to leave with no deal. She was the untimate Remain patsy.

The list of reasons to leave the EU are endless, so the Brexit narrative is massively cheapened to cut it down to immigration only. In my case its the creeping central control from Brussels with its broken currency, centrally planned economy and over regulation of everything. The result is a massive nanny state because the poor people cannot be trusted to look after themselves poor darlings. The first result of that is no innovation and a falling economy compared to the rest of the world. The second result is a hollowed out economies of Southern Europe. More than 10 years after the banking collapse, their unemployment levels are horrendous.

USA innovates
China duplicates
EU regulates

British Common Law - anything is possible unless there's a law against it is exactly why UK was the centre of the industrial revolution. We also had climate on our side but so did France, Germany and Spain. They are not stupid but their permissive legal systems prevented lateral thinking. Napoleonic law has to specifically allow things to happen. The French for example bought a Boulton & Watt steam engine to copy but after years of trying never got their version to work. In the meantime UK was powering ahead - literally.

All the confected dismay over Boris Johnson (who is still an unknown quantity over a real Brexit) shows that Brexiteers are very close to the truth. Thatcher was deposed because she resisted ever closer union with the EU. She was replaced by a John Major an over promoted middle manager who pushed through the next block of integrating legislation. Ever since, we have had more of the same with middle managers running the country by committee and focus groups.

This was Thatcher refusing to allow yet more political integration (which by definition means handing power to Brussels).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-27053536/euro-moments-thatcher-says-no-no-no-to-europe
6 months later, she had been deposed and replaced by the consumate middle manager - John Major.

DaveMcT said:

The second result is a hollowed out economies of Southern Europe. More than 10 years after the banking collapse, their unemployment levels are horrendous.

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The people of Southern Europe will be forever in your debt for helping them with their employment issues.....

AndyRKett said:

The people of Southern Europe will be forever in your debt for helping them with their employment issues.....

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As you well know, Southern Europe was screwed over by the Euro which gave them a sugar rush of cheap debt with an ever lasting hangover.

Germany wanted the Euro because the Deutsche Mark was getting too strong and damaging their exports. Weaker EU countries would pull down the value of a common currency. More importantly for them was the glow of a prestigious currency and so the Euro was born. UK stayed out because The Treasury would never relinquish control over Sterling. Italian industry did not want the Euro but economic numbers were fiddled to allow entry. They had an immediate kick of inflation when they joined.

All this was entirely predictable but the EU theocracy of ever closer union needed a national currency so it was fudged. This created the Euro monster. Its a monster because one currency can never combine the German ways of doing things with the southern European ways. Economic strength will always win. Germany now has a massive positive balance of trade while France stagnates and southern Europe is being sucked dry.

DaveMcT said:

As you well know, Southern Europe was screwed over by the Euro which gave them a sugar rush of cheap debt with an ever lasting hangover.

Germany wanted the Euro because the Deutsche Mark was getting too strong and damaging their exports. Weaker EU countries would pull down the value of a common currency. More importantly for them was the glow of a prestigious currency and so the Euro was born. UK stayed out because The Treasury would never relinquish control over Sterling. Italian industry did not want the Euro but economic numbers were fiddled to allow entry. They had an immediate kick of inflation when they joined.

All this was entirely predictable but the EU theocracy of ever closer union needed a national currency so it was fudged. This created the Euro monster. Its a monster because one currency can never combine the German ways of doing things with the southern European ways. Economic strength will always win. Germany now has a massive positive balance of trade while France stagnates and southern Europe is being sucked dry.

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The Euro is a big problem, but the best example of what's wrong with the EU: one size does not fit all.

One of the greatest things about each and every country within Europe are the rich, diverse and unique cultures, histories, geography and similarly, economies. They all move at different speeds, with different values and different challenges. Even languages have all evolved so differently despite all of those places being on the continent of Europe...

Why push them all to be the same in so many ways, when clearly and organically, they have grown the way they have for good reason? It's madness. Is it possible? I think we're seeing that sure, you can drag it out and regulate things but it's failing apart.
DaveMcT I don't think all the logic, reason and rationality in the world will convince these guys or any of the headline-fuelled remainers into even respecting the contrasting views others hold to them.

But.. in the not to distant future, when we're out of the EU (successfully, fully) and other developed EU member states follow suite, with a framework and a case study of the UK to follow... that's when suddenly, us mad-men start to seem a bit less mad. Unfortunately it'll take time!

DaveMcT said:

As you well know, Southern Europe was screwed over by the Euro which gave them a sugar rush of cheap debt with an ever lasting hangover.

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Well not quite.

Southern Europe Circa 1999 when the euro came in consisted of Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece.

All of those countries economies where doing with massive growth up untill 2008 when the economic crash took place, fuelled mainly by money lending practices in the US...

Its now only grease who are really screwed.

I'm not saying that the EU is perfect or making a comment on any other part of brexit or its supporters or opposes.

I just found it incredibly funny that your justification for voting to leave would be to save the job of a bar man in Mykonos

Greece was plagued by inflation & poor tax revenues among other things long before the Euro was introduced, the Euro just brought these problems to the fore to weaken the economy even worse. More or less the nuts & bolts of it.

AndyRKett said:

Well not quite.

Southern Europe Circa 1999 when the euro came in consisted of Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece.

All of those countries economies where doing with massive growth up untill 2008 when the economic crash took place, fuelled mainly by money lending practices in the US...

Its now only grease who are really screwed.

I'm not saying that the EU is perfect or making a comment on any other part of brexit or its supporters or opposes.

I just found it incredibly funny that your justification for voting to leave would be to save the job of a bar man in Mykonos

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I find it incredibly funny that you use the standard distract and distort method to get your point across. Why bother saying anything logical never mind reasonable when you can just throw out a few insults.

DaveMcT said:

The Brexit narrative is massively cheapened to cut it down to immigration only.

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I agree entirely..unfortunately the UKIP campaign did this, whether or not you wish to be associated with it.

A party run by a merchant Banker who stood to make a wedge of money from both the brexit vote and its aftermath warning of immigrants reaching breaking point.

DaveMcT said:

British Common Law - anything is possible unless there's a law against it is exactly why UK was the centre of the industrial revolution. We also had climate on our side but so did France, Germany and Spain. They are not stupid but their permissive legal systems prevented lateral thinking. Napoleonic law has to specifically allow things to happen. The French for example bought a Boulton & Watt steam engine to copy but after years of trying never got their version to work. In the meantime UK was powering ahead - literally.

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It's nice to hark back to the days of empire..I get to do so on a daily basis as I work on the site of what used to be the largest armaments factory the world has ever seen.

Obviously it closed..nothing to do with the EU..was abandoned, nothing to do with the EU. It was then reborn many years later as where I work now.. with the help of the EU regional development fund.

DaveMcT said:

All the confected dismay over Boris Johnson (who is still an unknown quantity over a real Brexit).

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There's no "confected" dismay, the man has regularly shown he can't be trusted to boil an egg. Regardless of if you are a remainer or a leaver he is literally the worst person to be running the show.

Everything he has ever been involved in is a disaster except Boris bikes..which should really have been called Ken bikes.

Edit: Breaking news! The man who didn't know the busiest port in the country was important to trade, and resigned because he didn't believe a deal he brokered was good enough has been appointed by Boris as foreign secretary.

The Boris speech made all the right noises and there is the odd unusual appointment, but the mood music is looking good from my point of view.

PS I raised the ancient history point as it illustrates the different ways of thinking from the UK and European points of view. It's old stuff but the tendency still stands.

DaveMcT said:

I find it incredibly funny that you use the standard distract and distort method to get your point across. Why bother saying anything logical never mind reasonable when you can just throw out a few insults.

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Distract and distort to get my point across.....

Firstly I had no point and did not make any point, I merely found one aspect of what you said funny and commented on it, I also didn’t throw out any insults.
SB1500 this is where you need to be posting your brexit nonsense, it seems it would fit well here.

AndyRKett said:

Distract and distort to get my point across.....

Firstly I had no point and did not make any point, I merely found one aspect of what you said funny and commented on it, I also didn’t throw out any insults.

SB1500 this is where you need to be posting your brexit nonsense, it seems it would fit well here.

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I’ve posted a lot of my Brexit none sense, it’s only right now to give you a turn to post your Brexit none sense. Otherwise, where’s the fun?!