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Old 21-03-2019   #16
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Quote Originally Posted by Steve145 View Post
... came up with the Fiat Croma ignition switch?

Any others that just make you ask "why?"
its a saab part
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Old 25-03-2019   #17
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Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
its a saab part
Quite likely.. given the location of it.. and GM parts
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Old 25-03-2019   #18
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Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
its a saab part
Quite odd how those joint ventures panned out wasnt it..

SAAB.. Gone

Croma .. gone

Vauxhall.. struggling in that sector too.
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Last edited by varesecrazy; 25-03-2019 at 09:46.
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Old 25-03-2019   #19
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Nobody wants a car-shaped car of that size these days. Most families in the market for large hatchbacks / saloons now buy an SUV instead.

Mondeo / Insignia sized cars have grown to almost fit into the same space for those who do want a large hatch or saloon - but leasing rates for company users are crazy - so company car drivers get a BMW / Mercedes / VW / Audi / Volvo or Lexus. (And, to be fair, with the 5-series starting at around 38k and the Lexus ES300h at 35k, they're around the same price levels as a loaded up Mondeo or Insignia anyway).

Even Alfa have abandoned the 5-series sector.
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Old 25-03-2019   #20
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

The decision to locate the ignition switch down between the seats was probably a safety crash decision/trial to avoid having items sticking out around the steering column that could make contact with the legs/knees.
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Old 25-03-2019   #21
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

These days we have keyless ignition with the added benefit that anyone with an iPad can use your car.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #22
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Way too much nanny stuff in cars these days. I think they put it in in anticipation of gov't regs. It really tees me off that the "hill holder" feature in my 124 can't be driver (or dealer, for that matter) disabled.

And would it have killed them to make that high-mounted touchscreen fold down, so I don't have to look over it in order to see the road?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #23
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Put auto up/down on only 1 window. Surely it can't be that much of an expensive circuit.
Bizarrely my car has auto down on all 4 windows but only auto up on the drivers
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Old 4 Days Ago   #24
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Quote Originally Posted by Didge3 View Post
Put auto up/down on only 1 window. Surely it can't be that much of an expensive circuit.
Bizarrely my car has auto down on all 4 windows but only auto up on the drivers
Not bizarre, but due to safety regulations.
Driver's window doesn't need anti-trap because the driver is deemed competent to press the button to back the window off if they start to trap their head/neck/arm/whatever during one-touch closure.
Passenger windows need anti-trap protection for one-touch close. There have been deaths, e.g. child with head out of window kneeling/standing on window switch so the window closes across their neck.
The expense for the passenger windows is in having current or movement sensing for the window motor or sensors in the window seal.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #25
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Quote Originally Posted by Didge3 View Post
Put auto up/down on only 1 window. Surely it can't be that much of an expensive circuit.
Bizarrely my car has auto down on all 4 windows but only auto up on the drivers
I believe it's to do with the complexity of your cars canbus system. If it's not one touch it is likely to be direct wired, if it is it'll go via the BCM. Also one touch requires anti pinch if it's not the drivers window I believe.

The Mazda commits this particular sin and takes it one step further. The drivers side window is one touch and wired via the BCM so it is on a one minute timer after you switch off to allow you to roll it up of you forget. The other windows stop functioning the second you switch off..so you pull the switches and all but one window stays put if you've had all 4 down.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #26
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Quote Originally Posted by Didge3 View Post
Put auto up/down on only 1 window. Surely it can't be that much of an expensive circuit.
Bizarrely my car has auto down on all 4 windows but only auto up on the drivers
Quote Originally Posted by chr1s View Post
Not bizarre, but due to safety regulations.
Driver's window doesn't need anti-trap because the driver is deemed competent to press the button to back the window off if they start to trap their head/neck/arm/whatever during one-touch closure.
Passenger windows need anti-trap protection for one-touch close. There have been deaths, e.g. child with head out of window kneeling/standing on window switch so the window closes across their neck.
The expense for the passenger windows is in having current or movement sensing for the window motor or sensors in the window seal.
Many years ago, a child died in a Fiat Tempra, whilst they were a current car. I think the child was only 2 or 3 years old, and had pressed the auto up with their head out of the window. It lifted the child by the neck and effectively hung it 'til it died.
From that moment, Fiat removed one-touch from all their cars, only adding it back in quite recently.

At the time the death was widely publicised, but like all such events, only the main headlines, no facts, so Fiat took all the blame - it was obviously the car manufacturer's fault. It could have happened in almost any car of the time as the sensor and auto-back-off was quite new, and not very reliable.

The fact that the child was left to play in the car was not mentioned.
The windows would only operate with the ignition on.
So the parents had left a small child in the car, with the keys in. Yet no parental blame at all.

Fiat are presumably still very cautious of this, even now.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #27
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Quite likely.. given the location of it.. and GM parts
Just noticed this - the 9000 / Croma / Thema / 164 were pre-GM. The 9000 was probably the last 'proper' Saab, even though it was a joint venture.

(The 164 was always the best of the 'Type 4' cars, though - with both the Saab and the 164 being the most individualised)
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Old 2 Days Ago   #28
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Re: What were car designers thinking when they...

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Many years ago, a child died in a Fiat Tempra, whilst they were a current car. I think the child was only 2 or 3 years old, and had pressed the auto up with their head out of the window. It lifted the child by the neck and effectively hung it 'til it died.
From that moment, Fiat removed one-touch from all their cars, only adding it back in quite recently.

At the time the death was widely publicised, but like all such events, only the main headlines, no facts, so Fiat took all the blame - it was obviously the car manufacturer's fault. It could have happened in almost any car of the time as the sensor and auto-back-off was quite new, and not very reliable.

The fact that the child was left to play in the car was not mentioned.
The windows would only operate with the ignition on.
So the parents had left a small child in the car, with the keys in. Yet no parental blame at all.

Fiat are presumably still very cautious of this, even now.
Around that time I had a Citroen BX with all round electric windows. I remember discussing news of a similar accident with a BX and my wife saying her car (Austin Metro) was immune to such things (virtually no electric goodies).

Some cars have an all close feature on the door lock by holding the key in the lock position. Others do it on the remote locking fob. It's another canbus feature with minimal cost to the manufacturer.
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Last edited by DaveMcT; 2 Days Ago at 12:05.
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