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Old 6 Days Ago   #16
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
Itís radically different, but I wouldnít mind that.

Less responsibility on my part
Boris Bikes basically.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #17
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Knight II View Post
Boris Bikes basically.
So, useful for those living in congested cities who only travel a few miles at a time, but pointless for the rest of us.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #18
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

You remind me of an old article I read about a Nightman protesting at the introduction of underground sewerage system as it would put him out of a job. Adapt or die.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #19
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Quote Originally Posted by Eklipze3k View Post
You remind me of an old article I read about a Nightman protesting at the introduction of underground sewerage system as it would put him out of a job. Adapt or die.
Quite, as much as we may enjoy how things are now they are never static. The way things are travelling cars are going to be so complex and require such infrastructure to support it's probably best a private individual isn't on the hook for it.

Does have a quite a few societal implications if that's the way we are headed though.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #20
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Quote Originally Posted by Eklipze3k View Post
You remind me of an old article I read about a Nightman protesting at the introduction of underground sewerage system as it would put him out of a job. Adapt or die.
Or, I might just know a bit about the technicalities which are being largely ignored by the government and those pushing the current agenda?

Without major infrastructure upgrades and environmentally damaging storage solutions, we just canít cope with charging cars and using them in any meaningful way.

Most current filling stations will only have the capacity to charge a single Tesla M3 at a time! And there is no way youíll ever be able to plug in a car when you get home at night and wake up with 500 miles range, as some seem to think is just around the corner.

We are creatures of habit, a massive behavioural change on a mass scale wonít happen in the lifetime of anyone here. We have had some kind of personally owned transportation for thousands of years, from horse and cart through to cars today.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #21
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Funny, I don't recall saying it would happen in our lifetimes, just that that's likely how it'll happen, the same way driverless vehicles can only really work properly if all vehicles are driverless. I expect both of these concepts to exist in tandem, but I don't expect it to happen before I die.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #22
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

If you look in detail at the model 3 Tesla this car has been specifically designed with view that it could be used as a pool car, esentially you buy your car and when you're not using it, someone else can hail it like a self driving taxi. You can customise every aspect of the car electronically so that when you get back in it, everything returns to your personal settings, including the directions of the air vents on the dash. You can lock people out of being able to get in the glovebox or the boot so all your personal items can be kept safe, and it already has all the cameras, sensors and other devices to make it self driving, but is also over equipped to be able to adopt better technology as it develops.

People keep banging on about infrastructure but forget that 60 years ago we didn't have any motorways, and 100 years ago most roads outside of towns and cities where nothing more than a dirt track.

In the last 70 years we have gone from relying almost entirely on Coal for all our electrictiy needs to building gas, wind, solar, hydro and geothermal and build many nuclear powerstations in that time also.

So it has to be said not only are we very good at building infrastructure but we are also very good at investing huge amounts of money.

I have absolutely no doubt that the infrastructure will not be a problem, there are a lot of very clever people already preparing for the day everyone is driving electric cars.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #23
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Building a 'filling station' that can simultaneously charge, say, 10 cars all at once, from nil to 500 miles range, is a massive, huge, and so far, insurmountable problem.

The only way it can be done at the moment is by using massive battery packs which can be charged at quiet times and then be used to charge the vehicles at busier times - but even then, you get into charge throttling issues.

We're being pushed into this too quickly and before the technology is anywhere near ready for us to even think about phasing out fossil fuelled cars.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #24
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post
Building a 'filling station' that can simultaneously charge, say, 10 cars all at once, from nil to 500 miles range, is a massive, huge, and so far, insurmountable problem.

The only way it can be done at the moment is by using massive battery packs which can be charged at quiet times and then be used to charge the vehicles at busier times - but even then, you get into charge throttling issues.

We're being pushed into this too quickly and before the technology is anywhere near ready for us to even think about phasing out fossil fuelled cars.
I have no idea what you are talking about...

The largest Supercharger station in the world is in China and has 50 bays for charging tesla cars.

Now with superchargers they work in pairs so if you have one car on one of the pairs then you get 120KW charging, if you have two cars on that pair then you get 60KW charging, but with 50 bays you get 25 cars being charged at full power. That is a drop in the ocean of what the grid is capable of supplying.

Now currently there are no electric cars with a 500 mile range, however the range is entirely dependent on the size of the battery and the size of the battery will simply increase the charging time. So if you doubled the size of a battery in a top end electric car you would get 500 miles range

The Tesla Truck is planned to be charged by a new generation Tesla "Megacharger" these will charge the trucks to a 500 mile range in just 30 minutes with a 1MW charger. Currently the grid in the UK is capable of providing 90GW of power and so that means charging 90,000 Trucks to 500 mile range every 30 minutes. Thats 4,320,000 trucks charged per day from the current grid (I know that's without power for anything else) but there are currently only about a tenth of that number in trucks on the road in the UK somewhere around 450,000, so you could charge them to do 1000 miles a day and still only use one fifth of the capacity of the grid.

Currently we use far less than the full capacity of the grid you can look on line and see what the current demand is, at the moment its about 34GW for the whole of the UK grid, and despite the up take of electric cars the demand for electricity has been dropping year on year as we all switch to much more energy efficient devices such as LED lighting and lower power energy efficient equipment so despite the uptake in electric vehciles we are still using less power than we have ever done.
As demand in electric cars increases there is no doubt that they will be able to match the supply to the demand.

Car ownership doubled in the UK in the 1930s from 1 to 2 million, currently we only have about 160/170k electric cars on the road in the UK.
How many roads and petrol stations do you think we build between 1919 and 1939 as people started to buy cars for themselves?
I'm sure the uptake in electric car will (as it already is) lead to a massive boom in infrastructure to support it.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #25
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

To make BEVs proper replacements for ICE, you need a 500 mile range and 5-10 minute charging.

Now, Tesla may be able to put a station somewhere in China which can 25 cars at full rate (which is nowhere near 500 miles in 10 minutes anyway).

But... you're not going to replace a UK filling station with one of those any time soon.

In theory, the grid may be able to cope. But local infrastructure can't. And the investment needed to actually upgrade like this isn't there and is so huge and disruptive it won't be here any time soon.

I'll just repeat what I've said - the average UK filling station could only support a single supercharger station without massively upgrading the incoming supply, or bringing in a couple of shipping containers of batteries.

The best example I can think of to show how this just cannot work with our current infrastructure is Exeter services on a bank holiday weekend. The petrol forecourt struggles to cope down there, imagine the supply issues with thousands of cars coming from the South East / Midlands and further desperately needing a charge.

And let's not forget that China don't care what damage they do in order to prove a point to the West.

Real world experience from one of my customers is that he needs the best part of an hour to get 200 miles range out of his Tesla Model S.

The other thing is that Tesla are known for stretching the truth - there are lots of owners complaining about charge rates - with some seeing as low as 40kW charging. Which suggests charge throttling is live and well - and that installing lots of charge points is a vanity project rather than a real reflection of the capability of the infrastructure.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #26
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

I don’t think you’ve understood electric cars.

This is the belief many people get hung up on, you won’t be able to charge the battery in a couple of minutes and then carry on for another 500 miles is irrelevant with electric cars.

You will be able to charge at home, overnight, so in the morning you don’t need to go to the charging/service station. The only people who will need to make a stop at a charging station are those going very long distances, however the main majority of journeys are not 300 miles plus, most people commute less than 50 miles to and from work, so a 200 mile range is more than enough for every day use.

When you get home you plug the car in like you plug your phone in. No one these days expects their phone to last all week like a tank of fuel might, why does your electric car need to drive all week back and forth to work when you can charge it at any time, at home, or at charging points near work.

The main majority of the time people are not using their cars, they are either Parked at home or at the office so there are plenty of opportunities to make sure you have a full battery. In fact many electric car owners will never visit a service station again.

If you are on a long journey you can stop off at a charging station and a 30 minute charge, a chance to use the loo, have a drink and a rest, before heading on to complete the journey.
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

So it'll be a bit like Formula E where you do half the race, depleting the batteries and swap cars into one that's fully charged? Drive your Boris Tesla until the battery is nearly flat and swap it for one that isn't.

Superb in theory and the number of park and ride facilities on the outskirts of towns and cities mean the land is there. Park and rides that tend to be near industrial estates so the grid would be able to supply power to docking/charging ports with relative ease.

A typical commute you would drive your Boris Tesla to the park and ride and swap for one that's fully charged or get the electric bus into the ULEZ (London only as of April but it will be spread out throughout the UK in time). After work either take the Boris Tesla home or bus back to the park and ride then and go home in a different Boris Tesla.

Hmmmmm. Okay for a few but once the idea has caught on and a hundred or so people need a Boris Tesla it'll come unstuck.

Something has got to happen in the next twenty five to fifty years. Demand for oil will exceed supply within our lifetime and one way or another we will be priced off the road.
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Lots of perfect world modelling there...

Average journeys are skewed by cars which only do the school run or weekly supermarket shop... or classics doing only 1000 miles a year.

Intelligent charging can manage until you get unexpected journeys, and you go out in the morning to a car with 30 miles range when the boss wants you 200 miles away.

All very well saying you can rapid charge on the motorway whilst taking a break, but youíll be one of several dozen wanting this whilst charge throttling turns 30 mins into 2 hours.

Whilst workplace charging also sounds ideal, do the maths on 300 x 7.5kW chargers, how do you get that power in and who pays for it?

My employers are spending billions on trying to solve these issues, with.current predictions being we will still be around 85% reliant on fossil for total energy requirements in 2040.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #29
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

Quote Originally Posted by Schumi2001 View Post


My employers are spending billions on trying to solve these issues, with.current predictions being we will still be around 85% reliant on fossil for total energy requirements in 2040.
Who do you work for ?

Currently the U.K. depends on fossil fuels for about 80% of its power needs (40% for electricity generation which is going down dramatically year after year)

So your employer apparently expects the use of fossil fuels to increase by 5% in the next 20 years despite all the coal fired power stations being shut or converted to biomass by then.
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Re: This could have some repercussions..

We are global and I can't remember the exact figure - but it was in that ball-park.

Even in the EU, with governments falsely driving the agenda with tax breaks, we'll still be circa 60% reliant on fossil in 2040.

The adoption of BEVs to clean up local emissions is just driving further reliance on fossil and 'peak oil' is still some way off.

It all may be a waste of time, as we are in danger of limiting plant growth by restricting CO2 levels in the atmosphere and could well be slowly strangling the planet by NOT releasing trapped carbon and regenerating CO2 to promote plant growth.

(And we have nothing to lose in this game, as we are heavily investing in alternative energies etc.)

I have no connection with this site, neither do my employers, but it's written by one of the founding members of Greenpeace who has now been ex-communicated... makes for some very interesting reading.

https://www.thegwpf.com
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