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Old 1 Week Ago   #16
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

Quote Originally Posted by sandeel999 View Post
In Italy most people keep their fiats for 10 or 20 years the Italians don't value a new reg on the drive every couple of years like the UK.
Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
That doesn't change the fact that we're very materialistic here, and not just when it comes to cars.
Yeeeeah ..... I looked into it and it seems Italians buy more new cars per capita than we do in the UK about 3% more new cars than us Brits
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

And yet there are old cars everywhere in italy
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Old 1 Week Ago   #18
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

But won't Darwinian selection kill them all off with offset frontal impacts?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #19
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

Quote Originally Posted by sandeel999 View Post
And yet there are old cars everywhere in italy
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/old-cars-britains-roads/

What this article really tells us is not that people are vein or materialistic, that really, new car purchases are driven by a whole host of other factors, running costs and taxes being a major part of that.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #20
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

I'd love to keep my car until it's 25..

It'd have no floor by then or be a patchwork quilt of welding and be absolutely un-motable but to keep it for less time is materialistic..

I find it slightly strange that this discussion needs to be had on a forum where it's pretty common knowledge the rear beam on panda/500 is good for 8/12 years before rotting away. At which point it's pretty close to being an uneconomic repair.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #21
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

The sheer impact the dummies went through is the biggest off putting factor Iíve ever had to buying my next Panda. Terrifying. Even if the re-test was possibly commissioned by VW lol
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Old 1 Week Ago   #22
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

What baffles me is how it scored very well in the offset test when it was first tested, yet neither the car nor the test have changed, yet all of a sudden, there's now an injury risk.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #23
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
What baffles me is how it scored very well in the offset test when it was first tested, yet neither the car nor the test have changed, yet all of a sudden, there's now an injury risk.
It appears going back through the videos, combination of seat and pretensioner seems quite ineffective. The 2012 test clearly shows the driver dummy whacking his head off the door frame. The Panda cross test the dummys head snaps back and gets stuck under the head rest which then moves up into the ceiling as the head goes forward again. This theme continued in the latest test..so perhaps their judging criteria have changed.

If you look at the higher scoring cars the dummy tends to follow a single smooth moment forwards into the airbag then back into the seat.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #24
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

That wouldn't affect the drivers chest though?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

It would..the pretensioner is what is applying the load to the drivers chest.

They tend to fire when an impact is detected to both tighten and lock the seat belt during the initial deceleration. Then as the G builds there's usually a degree of controlled failure built into the mount to allow a small amount of forward movement as the belt takes the load to reduce how much of the G force is transmitted directly to the driver and their chest.

Given that in all 3 panda ncap tests the dummy takes a different trajectory we can only assume that the load varies depending on fairly random factors. Given the dummies are built to a given standard and the tests are the same, the seat and belt perform inconsistently.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #26
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

I see.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #27
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Quote Originally Posted by StevenRB45 View Post
I'd love to keep my car until it's 25..

It'd have no floor by then or be a patchwork quilt of welding and be absolutely un-motable but to keep it for less time is materialistic..

I find it slightly strange that this discussion needs to be had on a forum where it's pretty common knowledge the rear beam on panda/500 is good for 8/12 years before rotting away. At which point it's pretty close to being an uneconomic repair.
Our panda just passed its 11th MOT WITH US.

REAR suspension still fine.

But the factory fitted bulbs..2003 spec
.

The white ones are now yellow... and the yellow ones are now white


I suspect the Italians dont have vast fleet sales like the Brits do.

Thats why their cheaper to buy new cars..hold their value far better than in the Uk.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #28
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

So... what has happened here?

The seat belts are failing to work as they should?

Must admit the Panda, from my perspective, handles the test better than the Up! Does - except for the movement of the dummies.

One dummy looks like itíd have severely broken itís neck due to the horrific motion of it moving back after the initial crash ... am I right to suspect so?

Thatís the only part putting me off it really.


~

For NCAP to completely ignore itís airbags, brakes, city brake option, ABS etc and give it less than Ď1í is wrong. Surely ZERO should belong to a vehicle with ZERO efforts for safety ... e.g. a shopping trolley boarded mid-descent down a hill headed for a concrete wall. Thatís zero. The Panda is still relatively Ďsafeí surely. Even if itís supposedly the least safe in class?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #29
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
So... what has happened here?

The seat belts are failing to work as they should?

Must admit the Panda, from my perspective, handles the test better than the Up! Does - except for the movement of the dummies.

One dummy looks like itíd have severely broken itís neck due to the horrific motion of it moving back after the initial crash ... am I right to suspect so?

Thatís the only part putting me off it really.


~

For NCAP to completely ignore itís airbags, brakes, city brake option, ABS etc and give it less than Ď1í is wrong. Surely ZERO should belong to a vehicle with ZERO efforts for safety ... e.g. a shopping trolley boarded mid-descent down a hill headed for a concrete wall. Thatís zero. The Panda is still relatively Ďsafeí surely. Even if itís supposedly the least safe in class?
There is a lot goes on in a modern car to keep occupants safe in the event of an accident, but the gist here is, the more you get thrown around inside the car, the less safe it is.

Itís actually very fair to compare the up to the panda as they launched at the same time in 2011 in the same sector, but from day one the up! Did perform better and got 5 starts and the panda 4, this was before the introduction of the stringent tests we have now and the over reliance on the gadget side of things as very few cars had the gadgets back then.

So the basic answer to your question ďthe seatbelts failing to work as they should?Ē Well kinda, the dummy gets thrown about then the seat belt isnít holding them properly.

I donít think that zero stars is fair for the panda it actually performs pretty well compared to other cars. I just watched comparison of the 1997 metro with a 2017 Jazz done by NCAP to celebrate 20 years of safety improvement, and itís clear what a true zero car rating should look like as the metro turns into a ball of tinfoil.

I do believe that NCAP like to make a song and dance, so one or two stars doesnít grab headlines like zero stars, also I believe they are making a point about fiatís very long model runs.

They have recently tested the current 500 which is the same essential car to the panda and they didnít fair anywhere near as badly, so whatís NCAPs deal with the current panda tests ?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #30
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Re: Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

As tested the Panda lacked knee airbags and Pelvis airbag which the ncap 500 score lists as including. Also the 500 got some assist points for including a speed limiter, not sure how the 500 got a decentish child score and the Panda scored 16% though.

I agree that it doesn't look like a real 0 star job it should be reserved for true horrors. This while not brilliant stands up much better than the score suggests.

Weird how the new Polo/Ibiza/Fabia hasn't been docked it's safety rating for having rear seatbelts that can come undone if 3 people sit in the back. The fix so far..a sticker saying don't put 3 people in the back..quality.
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