Register Login
FIAT Auto Specialist Team
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2018   #1
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
You couldn't make it up!

We returned, Sunday past, from 3 weeks away visiting my sister for a family wedding. Our cars, Becky - the Panda and Twinkle - SEAT Ibiza, parked in our drive for that time. Had to move Becky to let my boy get his Jazz out. I've suspected Becky's clutch to be less than perfect for a while and now it's started making a nasty loud squeek when you depress the pedal. Bother! 'box out probably!

Anyway, Twinkle didn't need to move until Tuesday when we pick up our granddaughter for the day. 30 mile round trip then again in the evening to take her home. She started easily after her long rest and we set off. A few miles down the road the EPC light came on followed by the engine light maybe 10 minutes later and a reduction in acceleration of maybe 50%. (Limp mode?) Had to keep going though to get Mrs Jock and granddaughter home which was accomplished without too much drama but at a reduced pace!

The car is only 29 months old (12,000 miles approx) and still under warranty so rang the main agent where she is serviced. Can't look at it 'till a week on Thursday! However you are covered by SEAT ASSISTANCE so give them a ring. I did and their technician was at my door inside an hour and a half - fantastic! As soon as he heard the car had been inoperative for some time he said he could guess at the problem! He connected his Panasonic Toughbook (I'd love one of those) and flashed though a lot of stuff too quickly for me to follow. By now we'd been chatting quite a bit so he knew I wasn't entirely ignorant about cars and he told me it was almost certainly an inoperative wastegate on the turbo (this engine's turbo has a simple open/closed type, no variable vanes!) So he said he was going to try driving it with the laptop, electrically driven type actuator, and I watched the actuator rod down the back of the engine. At first there was a straining buzzing type noise but no movement. Then, very suddenly, the rod started moving, backwards and forwards. He had a look and said "yes, that looks like normal movement now".

The problem seems to be that the actuator rod seizes at the turbo end - a very hostile environment right next to the hot turbo body - the cure seems to consist of stripping it, cleaning up the spindle and lubing with "Hot Bolt Paste" - what a lovely, descriptive, name! So we went, in convoy, to the dealer where the car was booked in for repair under warranty and the SEAT ASSIST chap ran me home. What a wonderful service. Rather disappointed that this has happened on such a new car though!

About a day and a half later the dealer rang to say they had assessed the problem and were requesting warranty permission to renew the turbo actuator. I don't quite see this as the actuator was successfully driven by the laptop and the car drove perfectly on the way to the dealer which would seem to support the diagnosis of a seized wastegate arm pivot, wouldn't it? Anyway I will be pleased to receive a new actuator as I know these electronic actuators can be problematic and the actuator assembly includes the arm which was the seized part which I suspect is really the culprit.

So I've been told I should see the car back early next week, which would be very handy as Mrs Jock goes in for her cataract operation on Wednesday and I don't really want to drive across town in Becky with her dodgy clutch!

Over the years, in addition to our beloved old Pandas, we've had a number of older SEAT and SKODA branded vehicles in the family which have proved reliable and easy to maintain and repair. I was just a little nervous about buying this new car with its quite highly stressed 3 cylinder, direct injection (like a diesel) turboed petrol engine and this has done nothing to reassure me! So watch this space. I'll keep you updated when there's more to report.

Regards
Jock
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2018   #2
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 8,913
Thanks: 384
Blog Entries: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
I was just a little nervous about buying this new car with its quite highly stressed 3 cylinder, direct injection (like a diesel) turboed petrol engine and this has done nothing to reassure me! So watch this space. I'll keep you updated when there's more to report.
As the old saying goes, there is no replacement for cubic displacement, my 2.0l diesel (VW) might be a dinosaur by todayís tiny engine turbo standards but it is built like a tank and takes a fair amount of abuse, where as Iíve driven many tiny engine turbos the latest one being a new shape polo with, I assume, the same 3 cylinder turbo of your SEAT, drove nicely and was quite nippy, but it didnít feel like it would cope well with my 60-100mile daily commute for long before something broke.
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________
Maker and voice behind the YouTube channel PuntoHowTo

And now the owner of a shiny new PuntoHowTo Drivetribe
AndyRKett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2018   #3
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
As the old saying goes, there is no replacement for cubic displacement, my 2.0l diesel (VW) might be a dinosaur by todayís tiny engine turbo standards but it is built like a tank and takes a fair amount of abuse, where as Iíve driven many tiny engine turbos the latest one being a new shape polo with, I assume, the same 3 cylinder turbo of your SEAT, drove nicely and was quite nippy, but it didnít feel like it would cope well with my 60-100mile daily commute for long before something broke.
Oh wow Andy. Talk about spooky flashbacks! Standing next to Harold Bull's "Stripduster" at Santa Pod probably in the late '60's enthusing over it's innovation and build quality when an American voice next to me said "just ain't no substitoot for cubic inches though son". Probably a serviceman from RAF Lakenheath where they were based. The memory sent a shiver down my spine - innocent carefree days of my youth!

I like my Ibiza estate very much. It's light and agile, much more so than the diesels I've had previously. Has the best feeling electric steering of any I've driven. Excellent fuel economy as long as you don't use the turbo a lot but the turbo gives you the option of moving smartly if you need to. Cruises restfully on the motorway and at a steady 70mph, cruise engaged, returns just under 60mpg. (Measured tank full to tank full over 4 return trips Edinburgh to Devon and Edinburgh to Salisbury. - goes the whole way on one tank which is very convenient. The only criticism I can make is that there is noticeable turbo lag if you try to accelerate away from tick over revs - say when dribbling in heavy traffic - but you soon just get used to that and adjust.

However all that will be as nowt if it's not reliable! I'm going to go and have a chat with the guys at AVW, our local VW/AUDI specialist independent. Where the car will be going for anything I can't do after its warranty is out in March of next year. Hopefully this is a one off?

On the other hand there is a very nice looking, low mileage, 2015 Jazz 1.4 sitting at a dealer close by. I nearly went for one of these when I bought the Ibiza but in the end went for the Ibiza as it was more familiar after my Cordoba, looked easier to work on (engine access, easy bulb changes, etc, etc) and spares and people with backup knowledge were all known quantities. The Jazz on the other hand has the well respected, normally aspirated i-vtec engine. Port injection, no turbo, and well tried and tested. Steering a bit "wooley" and possible question marks over gearbox reliability (1st motion shaft bearings so I've heard, or did they leave that behind with the MK1?)
Likes AndyRKett liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 04-08-2018   #4
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

A quick PS just for the sake of clarification.

The fuel consumption figure includes running across the city to the A702 then on it down to the M74 M6 and M5 down to the North Devon Link Road then across to Barnstaple. Much the same to Salisbury but we cut across through Swindon from the M5. So although most of the running is motorway there is also a measurable distance traveled on 2 lane "A" roads. Although I'm not getting quite what the manufacturer thinks is possible I recon it's really very good and only one or two mpg short of what the Cordoba used to get with it's 1.9 tdi engine.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-08-2018   #5
***** Whore
 
StevenRB45's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,679
Thanks: 79
Trader Rating: 0
StevenRB45 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post

I like my Ibiza estate very much. It's light and agile, much more so than the diesels I've had previously. Has the best feeling electric steering of any I've driven. Excellent fuel economy as long as you don't use the turbo a lot but the turbo gives you the option of moving smartly if you need to. Cruises restfully on the motorway and at a steady 70mph, cruise engaged, returns just under 60mpg. (Measured tank full to tank full over 4 return trips Edinburgh to Devon and Edinburgh to Salisbury. - goes the whole way on one tank which is very convenient. The only criticism I can make is that there is noticeable turbo lag if you try to accelerate away from tick over revs - say when dribbling in heavy traffic - but you soon just get used to that and adjust.

On the other hand there is a very nice looking, low mileage, 2015 Jazz 1.4 sitting at a dealer close by. I nearly went for one of these when I bought the Ibiza but in the end went for the Ibiza as it was more familiar after my Cordoba, looked easier to work on (engine access, easy bulb changes, etc, etc) and spares and people with backup knowledge were all known quantities. The Jazz on the other hand has the well respected, normally aspirated i-vtec engine. Port injection, no turbo, and well tried and tested. Steering a bit "wooley" and possible question marks over gearbox reliability (1st motion shaft bearings so I've heard, or did they leave that behind with the MK1?)
I would imagine the Jazz will feel a bit flat coming from the Ibiza and TDI. Much as I love a bit of 16v Japanese VVT, it will feel dog slow unless you get after it.

We've got the 1.2 Turbo puretech Citroen and vvt 1.6 Mazda and moving to and from the them is odd. Both produce around the same power but in totally different ways.

Citroen is like a more flexible diesel, lag then a big slug of mid range, accompanied by the 3 cylinder warble and a bit of vibration. 4 cylinder petrol in the Mazda does have some advantages, first with the extra cylinder it's far more balanced so spins more sweetly. Main advantage is absolutely faithful throttle response, main disadvantage would be no torque relatively speaking, 50lb/ft down on the 1.6 versus turbo 1.2. As a result you can't just press the throttle and expect it to do something, need to stir it with the gearbox and rev it out.

I like needing to work for it in a car with a nice gearbox, good chassis and a decent engine note. Very much like you drive an old Fiat, but it's not exactly a relaxing way of driving.

Despite this the Japanese car never uses any oil (and neither did my previous Suzuki with its vvt 1.5), and will easily pass 150k miles with regular maintenance, I'm barely halfway there at 7 years..so I imagine the engine will still be going long after the floor has rotted out.
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________

Last edited by StevenRB45; 05-08-2018 at 00:40.
StevenRB45 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-08-2018   #6
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

You're right Steven, the Jazz does feel more sluggish unless you really rev it's nuts off but I'm attracted by the simpler engine and legendary reputation for reliability. The traditional VTEC engines are well known for this characteristic of course but I'd hoped that the i-vtec, with its different use of the technology, would give a more torquey engine. I prefer a less frenetic experience these days which was why I liked the diesels so much. The little Ibiza drives much more like a turbo diesel with very useable power being delivered by about 15 to 18 hundred revs, pulling strongly from under 2000 rpm with linear delivery from then on up. Not much point in really reving it out although it is very willing to do so. Although the engine note is different (I think it sounds a bit like a little "mini" V6?) and is all but inaudible at tick over. It's also remarkably smooth with only just, and I'm really nitpicking here, detectable vibration at tick over - that deliberately unbalanced flywheel seems to really work and NO DUAL MASS FLYWHEEL!! The turbo lag from tick over is the only annoying feature. It intrudes when trickling along in very slow traffic. In these circumstances I like to trickle along, in first gear, with the clutch fully engaged, rather than slipping it, at tick over revs (around 950rpm) When you need to speed up depression of the throttle pedal momentarily produces no result. Acceleration happens very soon though, maybe a second or two of inaction. You learn to watch the vehicles two or three ahead of you and anticipate when acceleration is going to be required. The only other time it's a little annoying is on speed bumps - and Edinburgh is blighted with so many of them - I like to go quite slowly over these to minimise flexion of the road springs (in an attempt to delay them snapping) so I tend to trickle over, in second gear, at nearly tickover revs. If you wait until the rear wheels have cleared the hump before depressing the throttle pedal, you find ourselves two or three car leangths past it before acceleration kicks in! The solution is to gently depress the pedal as the rear wheels mount the hump, acceleration then kicks in as the suspension is rebounding from the hump - sorted (as my grandson would say).

She did use a little bit of oil, maybe less than half a litre, whilst settling in over the first 3000 miles or so. Hasn't used any since. There is so much I like about this car, and being the estate version it's additional load carrying capacity is very useful with the grandchildren and all their associated parafenaliar, I will almost certainly persevere with it. I researched it very carefully before buying as the previous model engine had several problems - timing chains being the most publicised. This new engine uses a belt (I like belts) and incorporates a number of other sensible improvements. The only long term concern I have is the old bugbear of inlet fouling with this being a direct injection engine with no secondary port injectors to keep the ports and back of the inlet valves clean. Although not a great believer in additives (especially oil additives) I think fuel additives can have some additional cleaning effect but with no injectors in the ports they can't help with the fouling issue here. Or can they? Archoil AR6900-P max claims to be able to have some efficacious effect and provide additional lubrication to the extremely high pressure fuel pump and injectors. I don't think it can do any harm and it might slow down the build up of deposits so I'm going to give it a go.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-08-2018   #7
***** Whore
 
StevenRB45's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,679
Thanks: 79
Trader Rating: 0
StevenRB45 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

If you want something that'll just run with scheduled maintenance none turbo Japanese petrol is probably where to go. Gearbox wise I'd probably take it with a pinch of salt, I've owned a few cars that internet wisdom suggested would give trouble. The mk1 16v Punto was pretty notorious for diff failure..in reality if you didn't
lower it, fit big wheels and drive like a jeb end it was fine.

The Suzuki Swift owners club gave the life of a clutch as 50k miles...and the input shaft bearings on the gear box as less than that. I sold mine at 80k on the original bearings and clutch with no sign of either failing.

Guess it depends where you are with it, we rent the Citroen I wouldn't want it out of warranty, I have no problems with the Mazda being 4 years out of warranty at this point because it's a (relatively) simple car properly built.

Mazda 2 with the 1.5 90bhp is a lively little thing (get them every year at service time), bit less dead than the Honda Jazz, 50 odd to the gallon.
__________________
StevenRB45 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-08-2018   #8
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Mazda 2 with the 1.5 90bhp is a lively little thing (get them every year at service time), bit less dead than the Honda Jazz, 50 odd to the gallon.[/QUOTE]

Steven, you seem to be into your Mazdas? I seem to remember seeing stuff about an engine they were developing (skyactive - X?) which was a petrol engine but using compression ignition characteristics to get diesel like economy with petrol driveability? Now that I remember it I must Google it but do you know what became of it?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 05-08-2018   #9
***** Whore
 
StevenRB45's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,679
Thanks: 79
Trader Rating: 0
StevenRB45 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Steven, you seem to be into your Mazdas? I seem to remember seeing stuff about an engine they were developing (skyactive - X?) which was a petrol engine but using compression ignition characteristics to get diesel like economy with petrol driveability? Now that I remember it I must Google it but do you know what became of it?
It's being released next year in the Next Generation Mazda 3.

Not seen any independent tests of the engine yet, few teaser drives but not the final engine. However the production engine is meant to use both spark ignition and compression ignition and lean burn depending on engine speed and have a clutched supercharger so not exactly simplicity itself!
__________________

Last edited by StevenRB45; 05-08-2018 at 22:15.
StevenRB45 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 07-08-2018   #10
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Well, as we still haven't got the Ibiza back and are relying on Becky, I thought I'd better investigate the clutch "squeak". It's a particularly loud squealing noise which is only there when the pedal is actually being depressed or released. It's so loud people look at you at traffic lights! You can hold the pedal down with the engine running and there's no sign of release bearing noise so, I'm relieved to say, I don't think the release bearing is at fault and the clutch bites and transmits drive normally. With a bit of good luck, it looks like the box doesn't need to come out then - unless it's something to do with the way the fork bears on the release bearing? (Mrs Jock says I'm an inveterate pessimist)

Decided to spray the pivot points, where the release bearing shaft passes through the bell housing, and the end of the clutch arm where the slave cylinder push rod bears on the arm, with WD40. Gave it all a really good soaking and sprayed a very small amount of silicon spray inside the dust cap on the slave cylinder. Within a half dozen depressions of the pedal the noise had completely gone! We used the car to collect our granddaughter this morning (Twinkle, the Ibiza, is still enjoying her enforced holiday at the dealer!) On the drive across the city and then on out to my boy's house all went well. The return journey started well but the squeak started, quite quietly at first, as we hit the heavier traffic in the city. By the time we were home it was, pretty much, as loud as before.

I think it's very likely to be where the slave cylinder push rod bears on the release arm. I notice there seems to be a kind of nylon cap? on the end of the rod which looks worn. I will try to push the rod back into the cylinder enough to get some moly grease into the depression on the end of the arm. If this sorts it it'll probably mean a new cylinder 'cos I'll bet they don't sell the nylon cap on it's own and I suspect that if the push rod has worn through this plastic cap then the metal of this small diameter rod will be wearing a hole in the release arm!

On the off chance that anyone is finding this interesting? I'll update when I've had a go at it and driven about for a while.
Likes JCarp16 liked this post
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 09-08-2018   #11
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Quote Originally Posted by Pugglt Auld Jock View Post
Well, as we still haven't got the Ibiza back and are relying on Becky, I thought I'd better investigate the clutch "squeak". It's a particularly loud squealing noise which is only there when the pedal is actually being depressed or released. It's so loud people look at you at traffic lights! You can hold the pedal down with the engine running and there's no sign of release bearing noise so, I'm relieved to say, I don't think the release bearing is at fault and the clutch bites and transmits drive normally. With a bit of good luck, it looks like the box doesn't need to come out then - unless it's something to do with the way the fork bears on the release bearing? (Mrs Jock says I'm an inveterate pessimist)

Decided to spray the pivot points, where the release bearing shaft passes through the bell housing, and the end of the clutch arm where the slave cylinder push rod bears on the arm, with WD40. Gave it all a really good soaking and sprayed a very small amount of silicon spray inside the dust cap on the slave cylinder. Within a half dozen depressions of the pedal the noise had completely gone! We used the car to collect our granddaughter this morning (Twinkle, the Ibiza, is still enjoying her enforced holiday at the dealer!) On the drive across the city and then on out to my boy's house all went well. The return journey started well but the squeak started, quite quietly at first, as we hit the heavier traffic in the city. By the time we were home it was, pretty much, as loud as before.

I think it's very likely to be where the slave cylinder push rod bears on the release arm. I notice there seems to be a kind of nylon cap? on the end of the rod which looks worn. I will try to push the rod back into the cylinder enough to get some moly grease into the depression on the end of the arm. If this sorts it it'll probably mean a new cylinder 'cos I'll bet they don't sell the nylon cap on it's own and I suspect that if the push rod has worn through this plastic cap then the metal of this small diameter rod will be wearing a hole in the release arm!

On the off chance that anyone is finding this interesting? I'll update when I've had a go at it and driven about for a while.
Ok, Wednesday morning and still no sign of Twinkle (our Ibiza) Mrs Jock due in the hospital late morning on the other side of the town. So, forced back the piston in the slave cylinder by gripping the push rod with Mole grips and heaving it back 'till the "dimple" in the end of the arm is exposed. High melting point moly grease applied to the "dimple" and push rod reseated. Noise still there! Oh B****r! - Still nothing for it, off to the hospital we go! Squeaky screech, squeaky screech, each time the pedal is pushed and again on release! Then, just before we reach Holyrood Palace, SILENCE! The noise, in one push of the pedal is gone! Journey completed to the hospital where I see Mrs J installed then back out to the car and travel half way back into town to the VW/Audi independent to ask about Twink's turbo problem. Then travel out to the southside where my older boy lives (he does shifts and is home with grandson today so I can spend the time with them till the hospital are happy with Mrs J). Finally collected Mrs J - who looks like she's gone a few rounds in the boxing ring after her cataract operation but reports all went well - drive back across the city, in heavy rush hour traffic - so lots of clutch use - no sign of the squeaky screech! Maybe, just maybe, I've got it! If it stays quiet for a few days I'll take the cylinder off and have a look at the end of the push rod, maybe treat her to a new one!?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-08-2018   #12
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

OK, I started this thread off describing the maladies to which Becky and Twinkle had succumbed during our three weeks away. So it only seems right to finish off by bringing the story up to date.

Becky seems a lot happier now her clutch release arm has had a nice dod of moly grease and it would seem that Mrs Jock's claim that I'm a pessimist has been borne out yet again!

Twink was handed back yesterday afternoon. I went round the long way to get home, including some national limit roads, and she's running as good as ever. You may remember that the Techie who first attended my call for help, when he heard she had not been driven for some time, guessed, before he'd linked up his PC, that the Waste gate was inoperative. He was right. He managed to drive the servo with his laptop which temporarily freed it up and we drove to the dealer - Arnold Clark, Seafield branch. A couple of days later I got confirmation from them that that was the problem and Warranty was in process to replace the actuator. It seemed likely I'd get the car back for the weekend but I later got a call to say it was not possible to remove the actuator arm from the waste gate and a complete turbo was required. Of course this had to be ordered so there was a delay while one was located, delivered and then fitted. The entire process took a bit over a week.

Considering the on line "stuff" you see about peoples experiences, I think it's only fair to say that I've been very pleasantly surprised by my Arnold Clark experience. The SEAT Assistance Techie attended very quickly and accurately identified the problem. He was a very pleasant chap who accompanied me to the garage and then ran me home afterwards. I received frequent update 'phone calls as work proceeded and they handed the car back cleaned and without any marks on the bodywork. The car is in it's 3rd year of warranty so there was no charge. All what you would expect but so often hear not to be the case (and not just at ACs). Twinks predecessor, 1999 SEAT Cordoba 1.9tdi was bought, nearly new, from the Paisley branch of Arnold Clark in 2000. It didn't start too well as two hub caps disappeared on the drive back to Edinburgh on the M9 and the air con stopped working. I rang them. Just take it to your nearest branch. I did and they replaced the hub caps and recharged the air con. A couple of weeks later the air con stopped working again so they replaced the compressor and all free of charge! I kept that car for 19 years.

I was very keen to learn exactly what had gone wrong with the turbo as I've changed turbo actuators before and never had a problem. I went to see the chaps I know at AVW (our local Audi/VW independent) where I learnt that it's not unusual, in this application, for the joint on the end of the actuator arm to seize so tightly to the waste gate arm as to make it impossible to remove without damaging the turbo. (and they've tried everything, releasing oil, large screwdriver, moderately large hammer, hammer and screwdriver, oxy-acetylene flame 'till it's cherry red, etc, etc). When this happens the only answer is a new turbo complete and a bill in the £1400 region - more, I would bet, at the main agent! Sometimes the actuator can be removed but usually only after the turbo has been removed from the engine so it can be worked on. This turbo is tucked down the back of the engine unlike the earlier chain cam TSI which had the turbo at the front. If you are "lucky" enough that the actuator can be replaced on the existing turbo then they recon a bill for around £400 will result.

At Arnold Clark I asked to see the turbo they'd removed from Twink and the receptionist went and got it from the stores for me (they could have just said it had been returned so that impressed me too) it was obvious that considerable efforts had been made to remove the seized linkage but, alas, to no avail! I would have loved to take it home to "fiddle" with but, as it's warranty, it has to go back. Pity! When I collected the car I asked if there was anything I could do to stop this linkage from seizing up (I have some very high melting point, 1500 degrees C, anti seize compound) and was told that the new turbo now comes with a modified connection to the waste gate arm and this problem should not reoccur. The connection on the end of the old arm is in the nature of a small rectangular block with a hole in which the clevis pin to the arm is held with a circlip (E clip I think) the actuator arm which runs back to the electronic actuator is bright steel. On the new setup the arm is mat black and the connection on the end looks like a rose joint - by which I mean it's spherical in nature. You need a mirror down the back of the engine to see it or you can, quite easily, get a hand to it and it's easy to feel if it's squarish or rounded. Needless to say don't try this unless the engine is really cold. Exhaust side temperatures will take the skin off you right back to the bone before you feel it! Whilst I was waiting in the showroom I managed to get my hand down the back of a brand new Arona's engine, (whilst the salesmen were looking the other way) same engine as mine 95ps 3 cyl 1.0 litre and, you'll never guess, It's got the "rose" type connecting block.

So, The emergency assist man knew what it was before he even opened the bonnet and was not prepared to attempt a roadside repair. (he knew the chances were good it was not going to be possible to remove the old linkage didn't he?) The Garage knew what it was. My friends at the independent garage knew exactly what it was and had had trouble with them in the recent past and, if you get a badly seized one (remember mine is only two and a half years old with around 12000 miles on it!) you're going to be into a new turbo! The good thing is, of course, that VAG, as I've noticed in the past, are ahead of the game and have brought out an improved version. I don't know if the new actuator joint can be retro fitted to the older turbo? As these engines age and a bit of slop develops on the pin I would guess there would be less of a tendency for this seizure to happen but, for now, If I was buying a used one I'd be having a feel of this before the engine was started up and if it was the old square type I would be factoring that into what I was prepared to pay.

Where am I with this at this point then? Well, I really like the car a lot! It drives just fine for me. It has the best electric steering I've tried - possibly a little too light though but better than most and very direct. Too much brake servo assist, but they're all like that now-a-days. Fuel consumption is really excellent if you stay out of the turbo too much but the turbo is there to give a bit of "squirt" if needed. Access for maintenance looks good (still in warranty so haven't actually laid a spanner on it yet!) Being an ST there's plenty of carrying capacity. Apart from this turbo thing she's been faultless so far and now, with the new linkage, this should be, I hope, resolved. I've got my VCDS to do fault finding, service resets etc and also, I've got the chaps at AVW, who I trust, to fall back on for anything I can't fix. So I'm going to keep her for probably another couple of years, maybe more? Of course there is the Direct Petrol Injection problem of carbon fouling of inlet ports and valves to consider, (very interesting reading on the "Oilem" website) but I wouldn't be happy unless there was something to worry about! Would I Mrs Jock?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-08-2018   #13
***** Whore
 
StevenRB45's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,679
Thanks: 79
Trader Rating: 0
StevenRB45 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Wonder if driving it a bit harder would help, if my understanding is correct your wastegate got stuck (given the lack of power you'd assume open but it may be the car detected it was stuck closed and refused to boost at all).

Driving with a bit more vigour would help it stay free given it should operate more often so less likely to stick?
Likes Pugglt Auld Jock liked this post
__________________
StevenRB45 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-08-2018   #14
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Edinburgh Scotland
Posts: 480
Thanks: 27
Trader Rating: 0
Pugglt Auld Jock has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: You couldn't make it up!

Quote Originally Posted by StevenRB45 View Post
Wonder if driving it a bit harder would help, if my understanding is correct your wastegate got stuck (given the lack of power you'd assume open but it may be the car detected it was stuck closed and refused to boost at all).

Driving with a bit more vigour would help it stay free given it should operate more often so less likely to stick?
You could very well be right. I don't tend to use wide throttle openings much these days - I'm not a mobile traffic jam either, by the way! However it could be that she'd benefit from rather more enthusiastic application of the throttle when pulling away from roundabouts, on the open road for instance, which would cause the wastegate to operate. I'll certainly be thinking more about that.

Thanks, regards
Jock
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Pugglt Auld Jock is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(G) Couldn't do it !! scotsstag Panda 0 04-06-2018 03:24
(G) You couldn't make this stuff up jimbro1000 Abarth 500 17 31-03-2011 12:06
(G) I Couldn't Do It Mark Elvin 500 9 20-01-2011 18:35
Couldn't have put it better myself Roberto FIAT Boo Archives 7 23-12-2003 18:21
Couldn't resist.... Ian (Geforce) FIAT Boo Archives 19 22-10-2003 18:21