Driving Techniques

[portland_bill]

Recently there have been a few questions about driving techniques, use of handbrake, parking in gear, clutch control, etc. The sort of stuff that might be expected to be understood while learning, but appears to raise questions in thinking drivers later. Perhaps missed during learning, or not fully understood.

It is good that these questions are asked, despite experienced drivers being surprised at them. It is good that people wish to learn and be a better driver.

So ask away. There's no such thing as a silly question. (Might regret that later)
Hopefully everything can be explained without having to draw diagrams!

 

[varesecrazy]

I had some further training yesterday.

With a MOTORWAY agenda..
Explained a LOT of the principles of the current model regarding 'smart motorways'...and the tech behind them..

Semi-higblight was the 2,5 minute video
(About flow ..vs bunching)
Containing 100% FIAT 126 VEHICLES.

 

[Liquid Knight II]

Why isn't overtaking part of the driving test?



I was a passenger in a car the other week and the driver sat on the back bumper of a van in front doing 40-45mph in a sixty zone. Instead of moving back to a safe distance and waiting for a gap he kept pulling out into the oncoming lane and back behind the van.

On the way back we swapped seats and I explained what he was doing wrong and why he was a danger to himself and everyone else on the road.

We were held up a bit by a caravan on the same road so I...

1/ Held back to a safe distance where I could actually see round it.
2/ Noticed a gap big enough.
3/ Signaled my intention to overtake.
4/ Closed the gap making sure I was on the right hand side of the road as soon as the gap to the caravan was less two seconds.
5/ Passed safely without incident.

...all in a fraction of the time we were stuck behind the van because he couldn't see round it.

After the overtake he said.

"Nobody has ever shown me how to do that".

He passed his test five years ago. I'm amazed he has survived this long.

 

[MattHarris19872016]

Is it good practice to always use your handbrake even if parking in gear. I have heard that this can cause the it to ‘stick’. Also heard in the cold it’s a good idea to only partially apply your handbrake

 

[jimboy]

Is it good practice to always use your handbrake even if parking in gear. I have heard that this can cause the it to ‘stick’. Also heard in the cold it’s a good idea to only partially apply your handbrake

Oh come on this has to be a wind up:woot: : This has to be a case of wicked humor or just sheer stupidity. Am I just missing something here?

 

[MattHarris19872016]

Something I’ve heard doesn’t sound too safe though.

 

[Liquid Knight II]

Also heard in the cold it’s a good idea to only partially apply your handbrake

I de-shoe'd the rear brakes of my Rover 213S

I parked at work for a night shift as usual. The temperature dropped to -14'C and when I set off in the morning I disengaged the handbrake as normal but the asbestos part of the shoe was stuck to the drum. I only managed to move a few feet when the rear wheels locked up.

Photo's

1/ -14'C I took a photo to demonstrate that all windows needed to be clear.
2/ Pad-less shoes...
3/ ...because they fell off as soon as I removed the drums.
4/ New slave cylinders, shoes and cleaned the springs and adjusters. Had to make sure they worked.
5/ Someone noticed me having fun in the snow and decided as my Rover was basically a Honda he would add 10bhp.

Modern cars and dare I say it better glue I wouldn't worry as much about parking in extreme cold. Not that we've had any since then. The coldest it has been (round 'ere) is -8'C and cycled to work in shorts that day.

 

[AndyRKett]

Perhaps missed during learning, or not fully understood.

This does instructors a disservice, I think it’s more a case of the student not listening or not understanding, as is proven a few posts below yours where the main instigator of these questions has posted proving that despite a whole thread dedicated to the subject of parking and using gears, he has clearly still missed the point :bang:

 

[AndyRKett]

I de-shoe'd the rear brakes of my Rover 213S

This properly made me laugh ��

It’s a perfect example of 1980s British engineering

That particular model of 200 also reminds me of the father ted episode where he tries to fix a little dent on a brand new car

[ame]https://youtu.be/8mdwAkWvWMw[/ame]

 

[Liquid Knight II]

This properly made me laugh ��

It’s a perfect example of 1980s British engineering

That particular model of 200 also reminds me of the father ted episode where he tries to fix a little dent on a brand new car

https://youtu.be/8mdwAkWvWMw

Hoi! The SD3 was a masterpiece. :devil:

"De-shoe'd"

I know a horse can throw a shoe but it was contained within the drum. If it's not the right term of phrase it should be.

 

[portland_bill]

Crumbs, what have I started here? Might be a full time job answering these.

Why isn't overtaking part of the driving test?

Can't put anything in the test that is not repeatable, and available at all test centres. Although as many as possible include country roads, which is difficult in major cities. Could drive a whole test and never have a need or opportunity to overtake anything.

My location, 12 miles from the nearest town, means that all my learners drive single carriageway roads with occasional overtake opportunities. It is still possible to have them test ready without ever having had an overtake opportunity, apart from bicycles in town, although the principle is the same, so should relate, if they've paid enough attention. Most of my learners will have made an overtake or several, before passing their test, but without having an assistant n a slow car ahead, we can't make them happen.

 

[portland_bill]

Is it good practice to always use your handbrake even if parking in gear. I have heard that this can cause the it to ‘stick’. Also heard in the cold it’s a good idea to only partially apply your handbrake

Parking in gear is an addition to using the handbrake.
Highway code rule 239: "You MUST apply the parking brake before leaving the vehicle."

A partially applied brake is not applied. Are we trying to achieve a slow roll down the hill rather than a run?

Applying the handbrake in the cold should not cause problems.

I de-shoe'd the rear brakes of my Rover 213S

I parked at work for a night shift as usual. The temperature dropped to -14'C and when I set off in the morning I disengaged the handbrake as normal but the asbestos part of the shoe was stuck to the drum. I only managed to move a few feet when the rear wheels locked up.

It was probably not just the cold that caused them to stick, but cold added to damp.
In damp conditions, the brake lining material can absorb some moisture. This is not normally a lot, and will dry out very quickly as the brakes are used.
If it has been a particularly wet, or humid day/night, and the brakes have not been used much on the journey (short journey, or a good driver observing well and not needing to brake much), they can still be damp when parked. If this is then followed by a drop in temperature, and in this case it was a significant drop, the water content freezes, sticking the friction material to the drum.
Rare, but not really a fault of the Rover, just bad luck.

Vehicles parked for long periods can have their brakes stick on, as damp gets into the linings, and then they rust onto the drums. Pads stick to discs in the same way.

 

[portland_bill]

Perhaps missed during learning, or not fully understood.

This does instructors a disservice, I think it’s more a case of the student not listening or not understanding, as is proven a few posts below yours where the main instigator of these questions has posted proving that despite a whole thread dedicated to the subject of parking and using gears, he has clearly still missed the point :bang:

Sorry, not what I meant. Let me try again.
'missed during learning' I did not mean to imply that an instructor had not covered any topic, but that it had not stuck in the learner's brain.
We can explain, we get the correct feedback, we observe, all seems fine on that or later lessons, then it later goes missing from their head. This can apply to almost any learning point and sometimes will not show.

 

[portland_bill]

On another thread a point was raised about using the handbrake on hill starts.

Many people hold the car on a hill with the footbrake, then when moving away find the clutch bite, to hold the car, then move to the accelerator to apply the power needed to heave the vehicle up the hill. A lazy technique, and not good for the clutch.

With the engine on tickover, the computer is only giving as much fuel as necessary to maintain the tickover speed. Finding the clutch bite loads the engine, the computer responds by adding fuel. Then as the accelerator is pressed, its first movement is actually requesting less fuel than already being applied. This can cause a significant drop in power momentarily, which with some small petrols will cause a stall, or very sluggish movement, which can take some time to recover. Can be dangerous.
This technique can also cause clutch damage. The clutch is designed to drive the car, not catch it if it is rolling backwards. Even a slight roll is asking the clutch to stop the car, then drive it forward. This can tear the centreplate apart.
This is becoming a problem on some automatics that use a manual gearbox with automated control. Dualogic and similar. If held on the brake, the clutch is disengaged. As the brake is released the vehicle starts to roll, then the accelerator is pressed, the automated controls release the clutch, but without the feel a driver can use, and this can destroy the clutch. The handbrake should be used to hold the vehicle, and released as drive is taken up, just like in a manual.
Many auto boxes now use mechanical clutches, so could suffer similarly. This includes twin clutch transmissions. Conventional torque converter gearboxes will tolerate this due to the fluid drive.

 

[StevenRB45]

Applying the handbrake in the cold should not cause problems.

Rare, but not really the fault of Rover, just bad luck

Vehicles parked for long periods can have their brakes stick on, as damp gets into the linings, and then they rust onto the drums. Pads stick to discs in the same way.

This reminds me of that damn DS3....

Couple of years ago we went away for 18 days, drove down the country in the Mazda left it parked on the dock in the sea air with the handbrake on. Came back to it after the holiday was done, fired it up, drove home 350 miles without incident. Got home, went to move the DS3 which was in the usual spot the Mazda occupies to find the rear pads had welded themselves to the discs..brute force and ignorance was applied and it moved but they'd pitted so badly that they were replaced at the next service.

The Mazda still has the factory rear discs and pads on it at 7 years old, it's expected that they'll last until at least 120k in most cases. The C3 rear discs already look rough. Never underestimate the influence of cheap components, I'd put money on of if I was to swap the rear discs on the Citroens out for a good quality none OEM part they'd not stick anywhere near as much.

 

[AndyPM]

So there's no such thing as a silly question? Not long ago a colleague drove into work and said ''Andy there's a strange light appeared on my dashboard, it looks like an Aladdin's lamp, is it important?'' I advised him to find a garage soonest, it was a fairly new BMW by the way.

 

[portland_bill]

So there's no such thing as a silly question? Not long ago a colleague drove into work and said ''Andy there's a strange light appeared on my dashboard, it looks like an Aladdin's lamp, is it important?'' I advised him to find a garage soonest, it was a fairly new BMW by the way.

Sad isn't it.
Warning lamps are colour coded. Green, information. Orange, warning, do something soon. Red, urgent, do something now, it is already too late!
Then there is the one blue one. Any additional blue ones, usually flashing, mean you're in trouble.

Quite a few years ago now, a driving instructor colleague asked, "the oil light has come on, how much do I need to add?"

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

On another thread a point was raised about using the handbrake on hill starts.

Many people hold the car on a hill with the footbrake, then when moving away find the clutch bite, to hold the car, then move to the accelerator to apply the power needed to heave the vehicle up the hill. A lazy technique, and not good for the clutch.

With the engine on tickover, the computer is only giving as much fuel as necessary to maintain the tickover speed. Finding the clutch bite loads the engine, the computer responds by adding fuel. Then as the accelerator is pressed, its first movement is actually requesting less fuel than already being applied. This can cause a significant drop in power momentarily, which with some small petrols will cause a stall, or very sluggish movement, which can take some time to recover. Can be dangerous.
This technique can also cause clutch damage. The clutch is designed to drive the car, not catch it if it is rolling backwards. Even a slight roll is asking the clutch to stop the car, then drive it forward. This can tear the centreplate apart.
This is becoming a problem on some automatics that use a manual gearbox with automated control. Dualogic and similar. If held on the brake, the clutch is disengaged. As the brake is released the vehicle starts to roll, then the accelerator is pressed, the automated controls release the clutch, but without the feel a driver can use, and this can destroy the clutch. The handbrake should be used to hold the vehicle, and released as drive is taken up, just like in a manual.
Many auto boxes now use mechanical clutches, so could suffer similarly. This includes twin clutch transmissions. Conventional torque converter gearboxes will tolerate this due to the fluid drive.

Yup! Stop on a hill. Hand brake on - even if just held by hand without fully engaging the ratchet - foot off footbrake! I tend to do this on the flat too if, for instance, I'm waiting for a full cycle of traffic lights. If nothing else it saves on prematurely blown stop light bulbs and, at night, dazzling the folk behind. Some of these new LED's are BRIGHT, don't you think? Also helps keep the hand brake cables free.

Talking about saving clutches. I've probably had a rant about this elsewhere but I really hate the hill hold on my new(ish) Ibiza. It holds on too long. I've achieved my clutch biting point and am ready to move off long before it's ready to let go! By using the handbrake and taking my foot off the pedal the hill hold doesn't activate! Oh happy day!

The detached linings is something I've seen before but always due to age where the adhesive has failed simply because it is so old. Typically jamming the drum and stopping the wheel rotating, sometimes freed briefly by reversing only to jam up again within a few yards of forward travel. Bring back the rivets I say!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Wonder if the salesmen are educating customers about these dry clutch, automated manual boxes. When I worked at the Daf garage - Dafs had a dry centrifugal clutch (quite pricey to renew) the boss insisted that every customer was given a lesson about how not to abuse it, which mostly consisted of :- when you stop apply the handbrake and take your foot off the accelerator pedal, then observing them and politely reminding them on an extended test drive. (The boss always liked a customer to have a nice long drive in the car before buying and sometimes I had to give up my demonstrator and go home in a trade in or on the bus so a potential customer could have the car overnight)

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Sad isn't it.
Warning lamps are colour coded. Green, information. Orange, warning, do something soon. Red, urgent, do something now, it is already too late!
Then there is the one blue one. Any additional blue ones, usually flashing, mean you're in trouble.

Quite a few years ago now, a driving instructor colleague asked, "the oil light has come on, how much do I need to add?"

Not surprisingly a lot of people who buy a car buy it because they want to get from A to Be. Quite a lot of these people have absolutely no interest in how it works as long as it does go and the entertainment system and blu tooth (for the dreaded mobile. I think that's what blu tooth is?) function. Many don't know how to open the bonnet and never check oil, coolant, tyre pressures, screen wash - 'till it runs out anyway! - brake fluid, etc. The multiplicity of warning lights on the average dash panel is now just too confusing. What we need is a large orange light which illuminates when a warning is logged. For instance - drop in tyre pressure. low fluid level (brake, coolant, oil) etc. This light means take action now but you're not going to come to a stop in the next few miles. A large red light which means stop right now, you've got a possibly terminal problem. For instance - no, or very low oil pressure, serious coolant overheating. Very low level brake fluid. etc. You could still have all the other lights, maybe on a panel of their own, so the owner, or whoever attends to the vehicle can narrow down what requires attention but having this simple primary system would make it easy for people with no technical knowledge of interest to respond appropriately - and potentially save themselves a very big repair bill whilst keeping the roads a safer place!