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Old 26-07-2017   #16
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Re: Restoring Cars

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
The best thing you could do is ensure the longevity of the car now by investing in rust protection now and protect the car for the future.
That, absolutely - corrosion in one form or another continues to kill cars. Bodyshells may be galvanised now, but there are many other parts of the car which are vulnerable (for example sumps & rear beams on Pandas), and even galvanising won't protect forever.

Cars leave the factory with a 10-12 year design life; if you want it to last longer than this, adding additional corrosion proofing is the best way to go about it.

The optimium time to do this is when the car has just come out of the factory. Once it's 10 years old, the damage has been done and whilst you may still be able to extend its life a few years, you won't get the same return for your efforts as if you'd put them into a new car. Back in the days when aftermarket rust treatment of new cars was commonplace, Ziebart would only guarantee the work if done on cars less than 3 months old.

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
Whereas, if I could have it done for the price of a new 6,995 Panda Pop then I'd opt for it.
Putting 6995 into a new Panda Pop will give you a far, far better return on your investment than putting 6995 into the car you currently own.

Buy it a month before you need it, then spend that month diligently adding corrosion protection to anything you think might ever corrode in the future. Remove, grease and replace every bolt you think you may ever need to remove again in the next twenty years. Been there, done that, with a R5 back in 1989. I got almost 220k miles out of it before selling it after 13 years, and the next owner got at least another 3 years from it. Most were on the scrapheap after less than 100k/10yrs.

Your current car is too old, worn and rusty to be worth doing this to now; you could get a better return on your investment in both time and money elsewhere. Consider instead the value you've had from it in teaching you the basics of mechanics, and in identifying those areas where a little additional protection would help. The car may go to that great scrapyard in the sky, but the knowledge & skills you've gained from it will live on for the rest of your life.
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Last edited by jrkitching; 26-07-2017 at 09:46.
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Old 27-07-2017   #17
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Re: Restoring Cars

Shame about the Herald. My second car was a Mk1 948cc one.



Sorry Andy I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. I was talking about profiteering not budgeting.
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Old 28-07-2017   #18
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Re: Restoring Cars

Common cars dont get cherished..

So in 30 years..they are the relatively rare ones..look at @Palio..with the 'concours d'ordinaire'.

My estate agent loved our X1/9..and said the agency nearly bought one ..but got a 128 p as it was more practical...

The 128 is far rarer now..!!
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Last edited by varesecrazy; 28-07-2017 at 09:28.
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Old 28-07-2017   #19
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Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Common cars dont get cherished..

So in 30 years..they are the relatively rare ones..look at @Palio..with the 'concours d'ordinaire'.

My estate agent loved our X1/9..and said the agency nearly bought one ..but got a 128 p as it was more practical...

The 128 is far rarer now..!!
The fiat 128 was very much of the era of the original fiat 500, they were very high volume and a lot of people owned them, however these days no one remembers them (or thinks they're a lada) and they are not desirable.

I suspect in 20-30 years time the panda will be much the same, generations ahead will look back fondly at he retro fiat 500 that fiat currently produce, they will have fun stories and look to recapture their youth by owning a well cherished and restored 500 pop or lounge, but I can't see too many people doing the same with the current panda, and it's likely only a few enthusiasts like now will keep old pandas going.
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Old 28-07-2017   #20
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Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Knight View Post

Sorry Andy I think you got the wrong end of the stick there. I was talking about profiteering not budgeting.
I know exactly what you meant, I just chose to address a different point. you're still wrong though if you've got 20k to spend fully restoring an old car then no matter what your thoughts are you're not going to be restoring something that no one has an interest in saving for the future, your 20k will always be better spent restoring something that is though of in high regard. Even if you won't make money from restoring it, another 10-20 years later prices will have risen to a point you might break even or make a few pounds which can be handed down the family, that or a family member could go on to further appreciate and cherish the car. Restore something old bland and boring that no one has any interest in and future generations won't car and the next owner will neglect it or scrap it, so there is no point.
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Old 28-07-2017   #21
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Re: Restoring Cars

Here in France, we have a concept called 'patrimoine', which translates best as 'heritage' or 'inheritance' (litrally, paternal inheritance). It has many aspects, but the one of interest here is that of cultural and industrial heritage.

This is something on which more and more emphasis is being placed, as we come to understand how much we have already lost. The current view is trending more and more towards the idea that everything is worth saving and that the focus should be on the simple, everyday objects to which nobody gives a second thought, rather than the exotica, which, by it's very nature, will tend to be preserved anyway.

Something that is commonplace now, will be seen as just that, common, so there will be litle effort to preserve it and by the time someone notices that they are all dissapearing, it may well be too late.

This applies to everything, but focusing on cars:

How many cars from the 80s and early 90s do you still see on the roads? How many of those are actually in a condition that could be considered 'restorable' (anything is possible, but we're talking within reasonable means)?

I can't remember the last time I saw an Opel Kadette 'E' (Mk2 Astra), there is one Ford Sierra that I see from time to time, not seen a square Escort for years. Any Fiat from before the mid '90s?

'Home' marques have fared a bit better, but I can't remembe when I last saw a Citroen Visa, or any numbered Renault other than a 4,5,19 or 21.

Common cars appear to go through a cycle:

New => Used => Cheap => Banger => Cherished => Classic

The thing is, few, if any, make it past the 'cheap' or 'banger' stages, most will have been used daily and be quite simply worn out by the time they are 15-20 years old, at which point they will be scrapped or 'driven into the ground' (and then scrapped).

Compare that to a more prestigious vehicle, which was desirable when new, still desirable when used and probably skipped straight to the 'cherished' stage.

If nobody thinks to save the 'common' cars, one day there won't be any left to save. This is a modern day issue, there don't seem to be so many cars getting 'forgotten' in barns and garages anymore and monocoque construction is far less durable than older designs with a seperate chassis.

Some marques and models appear to be more resistant to this than others, either by construction, cultural following or a bit of both. The Fiat 500, VW Beetle, Citroen 2CV, Mini all attained a cult following while still in production, so their survival is assured.

The Mk2 Golf, for reasons that are beyond my understanding, seems to live on, forever...*


So I guess what I'm trying to say is that somebody has to save the 'common' cars, otherwise there won't be any left, it's not a matter of monetary value, but historical value.

My local club owns what is believed to be the last Citroen Type 29U truck in existance. What's it worth? Probably far less than the hours that went into restoring it, but it is the only one.


However, this is going a little away from the original question, SB1500 wants to keep his Panda because he likes it, not so much as a weekend toy, but as a daily driver. I'd suggest maybe, finding the best, most rust-free shell possible and stripping and rebuilding that, with new parts where possible and taking the time to correct the 'mistakes' Fiat made in the interests of cost saving. At the end of it, you'll have a car you know inside out, that should be good for many years to come and you get to keep driving your current one in the meantime.


*I come from a family of VW fans and have married into another, but I just never got 'it'.
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Last edited by Steve145; 28-07-2017 at 14:18.
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Old 29-07-2017   #22
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Re: Restoring Cars

If you kept your car like this there would be no need to think about restoring !
This is the underside view of my 2003 Doblo cargo, the mot may said he had seen nothing like it, and it passed with no advisories,I know many people who at weekend will spend hours washing and polishing there cars and have never looked underneath form the day they bought the car, most fiats are only 70 percent galvanized, Fiat dont want cars to last forever but they also dont want cars like we had in the 70 s like the strada with gaping holes in the bodywork at just 3 years old so all the outer panels on show are now galvanized but they dont use galvanized steel on the underbody which is the most important part of the car as far as longevity is concerned,when I bought my Doblo in 2003 I kept it in my garage for 6 weeks while I stripped it down, wax injected and painted the whole of the underneath with black hammerite and now its paying back dividends 13 years on.
Washing the underbody of the car is just as important if not more than washing the topside .
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Old 29-07-2017   #23
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Re: Restoring Cars

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
The fiat 128 was very much of the era of the original fiat 500, they were very high volume and a lot of people owned them, however these days no one remembers them (or thinks they're a lada) and they are not desirable.

I agree - to a point..,
http://auto-zer.com/uploads/polski-f...128p-3p-04.jpg
but for "1975" it's more "FORD Crapi" than Lada

I was eluding to huge selling cars that have all-but disappeared.. ( those making the Hegartys "classic" show.)

a 1300cc Strada
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rc...01415975789316


@SB1500
personally with a car already approaching 100K miles, and showing SOME wear / corrosion..
I would spend time looking for a cherished low miles Panda - it'll still be a cheap purchase..
but realistically If you want anything to be saved / valued in the future you'll have to park it up.. which pretty much defeats the object of a @12 year old runabout.

our Panda is at a similar point.
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Last edited by varesecrazy; 29-07-2017 at 13:09.
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Old 29-07-2017   #24
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Re: Restoring Cars

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
@SB1500
personally with a car already approaching 100K miles, and showing SOME wear / corrosion..
I would spend time looking for a cherished low miles Panda - it'll still be a cheap purchase..
but realistically If you want anything to be saved / valued in the future you'll have to park it up.. which pretty much defeats the object of a @12 year old runabout.

our Panda is at a similar point.
Got to agree with this, it's far easier to start with a nice one and keep it good than bring a car that's declining back to its best.

Then there's the other question of "now that it's restored can I use It?" The answer to that one is generally no, if you daily drive something with the best will in the world it's going to deteriorate. So you'll need a week day bash about..which incidentally SB1500s current panda is ideal for..and he could find a nice one little old lady one with 19k miles on it in time warp condition and keep that for best.

And make no mistake there are mk3 pandas out there with 4 figure mileages on never mind 5.
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Old 29-07-2017   #25
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Re: Restoring Cars

Enjoy this thread! I think it is well worth keeping a common car good if it makes you happy. I am tempted to pre treat our next car, will probably be a diesel, probably 4x4 panda ;-). Then when there is a decline in petrol stations, diesel available for heavy vehicles, and nostalgia for something not electric, I can smile without too much guilt in what will become a classic.
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