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Going electric

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Going electric

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andydiver said:
Yes. And seriously, did the American fire service do that? Unreal. In Europe they are trying to / have agreed a database for the rescue services whereby they can look up the key wiring routes etc in a chassis for any given car at the site of an incident. In this way they can cut / dismantle / recover as required for casualties with respect for such items. Sounds a good idea.....
Click to expand...

Trying to find that article again the only one I can find was 2013 so maybe it wasn’t as recent as I thought, so I’m guessing that it was maybe the old article I’d read and procedures have been updated since then?

There appear to be some statistics that suggest that an electric car fire will occur for every 100million miles covered by cars, where as internal combustion engine cars catch fire every 20million miles covered, so fires in electric cars are considerably lower than that of fuel powered cars.
 
puntofan01 said:
It's not dissimilar to when cars started to be fitted with airbags: rescue staff tampering around near non-deployed airbags caused them to go off, injuring the rescue worker and/or the casualty. Obviously, the methods used to free crash victims were suitably changed to prevent these incidents.
Click to expand...

It wasn’t a very common problem, but it only has to happen once for the health and safety brigade to jump on it, with hundreds of accidents up and down the country it’s bound to have injured a few fire service personal here and there.

Now in and accident they put little undeployed airbag stickers all over anywhere where an airbag has been fitted and not gone off, generally speaking if the airbag hasn’t gone off, then it’s not going to, but with big damage there is also the possibility of damaged electrics so the first thing to do is remove the battery, on in some cars they have and airbag type explosive squib to severe the battery mains lead, cutting the power automatically in the event of an accident.
 
Got to have a proper look round one of these today, it’s a bit of a unicorn of cars as they made very few and they were over £100,000 each, however diesel electric hybrid, 100mph top speed, very comfy inside (I did have a sit in it) and tops out at 313mpg.
 

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I really like the idea of electric cars...

Honestly, it makes me feel sick at times sitting in traffic these days each morning, and seeing the amount of fumes coming out of my 'small 1.2' Fiat Panda. For the sake of getting me to uni and back, to the supermarket and work (all within 10 miles from home) it's a lot of crap going into the air.. I saw a VERY nice Mercedes with twin-double exhausts - real ones! - with fumes coming out all of them. It really looks cool, but that thing was pumping out what looked to be a LOT more than the Panda - unsurprisingly needing more fuel.. And it's bad enough what I said about me, for my stupid journeys, but this guy was also sitting in a 5 seat car - albeit a nice, fast and sexy one - also pumping out tonnes of these fumes into the air too.

If there was a way I could enjoy the mobility, comfort and running costs of my current car without that problem I'd be all for it. The sad thing is, most of the commercially successful electric cars like Tesla, the BMW I models etc are very expensive. Though I'm seeing more this year than before. I see quite a few Renault Zoe cars too. Not too many e-UP!s , but that sort of demonstrates the problems today with them.. A £10,000 goes up to about £25,000 just to make it electric. It's one of the few cars available in the same form with an electric option here. For those with £25,000 to spend, I'd say something like 9 out of 10 will go for a nicer, more premium fossil fuel car. And nobody would blame them.

Though electric cars aren't that much better for the environment (still depends on oil based lubricants, oils and fluids elsewhere) as well as the steel, rubber, plastics etc they require I think the filling up with petrol problem is a big one, and nice one to eliminate.

Do any of you guys feel like we really will get there by 2040?

I'd like the day to come where there's decent electric versions of cars like the current Fiat Panda and even ultra-budget Dacia's - maybe for around £10,000 given the newer technology? Today it's a big step up in price and a lot of running commitment in terms of money and things like 'range anxiety'.

The way I see it is, by the time the government takes away our Petrol/Diesel cars the market will be ready to take buyers from all price points into the next generation of electric replacement.
 
Most Easterly Pandas said:
Where are you getting this info from :confused:
Click to expand...

Still requires steel from the earth. Produced in fossil fuel burning factories. Lots of plastics based on oil. Oil based lubricants throughout the cars mechanical parts. Delivery to owner on a huge oil burning lorry, sounds a bit OTT yeah, but still has a big impact on the planet bar the petrol/diesel requirements. A good improvement nonetheless, but we can't pretend they're the 100% superior, complete solution to today's problems, surely?
 
dtimmins1985 said:
Is that a legitimate figure lol... given the VW emissions scandal lol.
Click to expand...

Possible....
Last I heard the REAL mpg record on the UK south coast run was 130mpg in small td 'motorised phone-box' that the Japanese excel at.

So with flash/expensive materials...
Energy recovery systems. And a moderately improved coefficient of drag..then yes
'Test cell/track' numbers of that order should be possible
 
In real terms...
My 1st nice car could scrape 30mpg.
Next one did 60..
Single fuel cars of the 2008
/2014 era could nudge 100mpg

So within 5years ...
given the acceptance that a car will cost £10k more than with ICE power...

Then its all possible...

However this all reliant on the investment in research...
Volvo.etc announcing the end of ICE reliance will certainly help.
 
SB1500 said:
I really like the idea of electric cars...

Honestly, it makes me feel sick at times sitting in traffic these days each morning, and seeing the amount of fumes coming out of my 'small 1.2' Fiat Panda. For the sake of getting me to uni and back, to the supermarket and work (all within 10 miles from home) it's a lot of crap going into the air.. I saw a VERY nice Mercedes with twin-double exhausts - real ones! - with fumes coming out all of them. It really looks cool, but that thing was pumping out what looked to be a LOT more than the Panda - unsurprisingly needing more fuel.. And it's bad enough what I said about me, for my stupid journeys, but this guy was also sitting in a 5 seat car - albeit a nice, fast and sexy one - also pumping out tonnes of these fumes into the air too.

If there was a way I could enjoy the mobility, comfort and running costs of my current car without that problem I'd be all for it. The sad thing is, most of the commercially successful electric cars like Tesla, the BMW I models etc are very expensive. Though I'm seeing more this year than before. I see quite a few Renault Zoe cars too. Not too many e-UP!s , but that sort of demonstrates the problems today with them.. A £10,000 goes up to about £25,000 just to make it electric. It's one of the few cars available in the same form with an electric option here. For those with £25,000 to spend, I'd say something like 9 out of 10 will go for a nicer, more premium fossil fuel car. And nobody would blame them.

Though electric cars aren't that much better for the environment (still depends on oil based lubricants, oils and fluids elsewhere) as well as the steel, rubber, plastics etc they require I think the filling up with petrol problem is a big one, and nice one to eliminate.

Do any of you guys feel like we really will get there by 2040?

I'd like the day to come where there's decent electric versions of cars like the current Fiat Panda and even ultra-budget Dacia's - maybe for around £10,000 given the newer technology? Today it's a big step up in price and a lot of running commitment in terms of money and things like 'range anxiety'.

The way I see it is, by the time the government takes away our Petrol/Diesel cars the market will be ready to take buyers from all price points into the next generation of electric replacement.
Click to expand...

The visible "fumes" you see in the morning are allmost 100% water (like jet contrails) Burning hydrogen (from hydrocarbon fuel) with oxygen (from air) gives H2O - water. For a correctly working modern (post 2015) car there are no visiblr harmful emissions.
You are missing the big issue with plug-in hybrids and electric cars, most of the electricity is generated from burning hydrocarbon fuels (especially in NI which has no nuclear) so you have generation, transmission and conversion losses to consider.

Robert G8RPI.
 
SB1500 said:
Still requires steel from the earth. Produced in fossil fuel burning factories. Lots of plastics based on oil. Oil based lubricants throughout the cars mechanical parts. Delivery to owner on a huge oil burning lorry, sounds a bit OTT yeah, but still has a big impact on the planet bar the petrol/diesel requirements. A good improvement nonetheless, but we can't pretend they're the 100% superior, complete solution to today's problems, surely?
Click to expand...

Steel more often than not now is reclaimed from recycling after 300 years of the steel industry we have plenty of it about now (not that they don’t still mine it) and more manufacturers are installing alternative power sources to be more independent of the grid and fluctuations in power prices. Mini powers it’s body shop with something like 1000 robots, entirely off solar pannels on the roof.

Lots of plastics in these modern hybrid and electric cars are coming more and more from biomass (bioplastic) and other materials such as carbon fibre which is becoming more common place in production cars.

Electric cars don’t need huge amounts of oil or lubricants like a petrol or diesel car does, and it rarely needs changing as the lubricants don’t become fouled by the products of combustion.

Finally all cars at some point will travel in a oil burning lorry, however has the technology develops the oil burning lorries will be replaced with modern alternatives.
 
I should add that when oil is made into plastic the hydrocarbons in it are not burned and therefore not released into the atmosphere, the plastic is then recycled or thrown out but not turned back into oil and burned as fuel (yes I know there are many other issues with plastic) plastic it’s self however does not produce anything like the amount of CO2 produced from the manufacture and burning of fossil fuels
 
g8rpi said:
You are missing the big issue with plug-in hybrids and electric cars, most of the electricity is generated from burning hydrocarbon fuels (especially in NI which has no nuclear) so you have generation, transmission and conversion losses to consider.

Robert G8RPI.
Click to expand...

Although many coal fired power stations are currently in the process of converting to biomass fuel, significantly reducing their carbon footprint
 
Well,

If all new cars are made from existing steel... in factories using renewable energy.. with plastics etc all not depending on new oil or moulded without producing harmful chemicals... We have a lot less to worry about than I previously thought.

Though if that's the case, fair play. I'm glad to hear it!
 
AndyRKett said:
<SNIP>
Mini powers it’s body shop with something like 1000 robots, entirely off solar pannels on the roof.
<SNIP>
Click to expand...

I think "entirely off solar" is a little optimistic. This link https://www.evoenergy.co.uk/case-studies/bmw-mini/
indicates it is a 3MWp installation. This is 3MW in optimum conditions, peak sunlight. I doubt 3MW is enough to run the plant, it would allow 3kW per robot (ABB's high efficency IRB6700 takes 2.8kW) without considering welders, heating, ventilation lighting etc.And of course the sun does not shine the 24/7 that the plant runs.
Every little helps though.


Robert G8RPI.
 
g8rpi said:
I think "entirely off solar" is a little optimistic. This link https://www.evoenergy.co.uk/case-studies/bmw-mini/
indicates it is a 3MWp installation. This is 3MW in optimum conditions, peak sunlight. I doubt 3MW is enough to run the plant, it would allow 3kW per robot (ABB's high efficency IRB6700 takes 2.8kW) without considering welders, heating, ventilation lighting etc.And of course the sun does not shine the 24/7 that the plant runs.
Every little helps though.


Robert G8RPI.
Click to expand...

Making assumptions again! 3Mw is a serious amount of power, as stated in the article you posted it’s enough to run 850 homes, I have no idea how much power these robots used but I know a ‘robot’ could be something huge or a small item that performs a small task maybe only using a few hundred watts.

Without knowing how much power that part of the factory uses you’re just making guesses, also when power use is low these systems feed the extra back into the grid then when the sun does go down they are buying back the electricity they already produced, their CO2 free power they fed in earlier in the day means that less fossil fuel gets burned in power stations else where. And as already discussed there have been long periods in the uk where no fossil fuel is used for electricity as there is adequate power being produced from other sources.
 
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