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Old 13-07-2017   #31
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Re: Going electric

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Old 13-07-2017   #32
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Re: Going electric

Yeah, but a couple of tons of out-of-control battery-pack laden mobile apartment block taking control of the tow-car could definitely scratch some paint.

Don't get me wrong - I like electric cars. They are very good at city driving. Some are also pretty good at long straight roads.
I think they are probably less good on country lanes with loads of potholes and unbridged fords, but time will tell on this.

Theoretically they would be good for pulling heavy trailers because of the power delivery characteristics.

Not at all sure about a weight "arms race" to get more range. As far as I am concerned there are enough bad drivers already with overweight cars capable of causing massive damage to anything that gets in their way (check out your local scrapyard for superminis hit up the rear by inattentive SUV drivers).
Making heavier & bigger cars so these jokers can travel further does not seem like a step forward to me.
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Old 13-07-2017   #33
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Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by irc View Post
Yeah, but a couple of tons of out-of-control battery-pack laden mobile apartment block taking control of the tow-car could definitely scratch some paint.

Don't get me wrong - I like electric cars. They are very good at city driving. Some are also pretty good at long straight roads.
I think they are probably less good on country lanes with loads of potholes and unbridged fords, but time will tell on this.

Theoretically they would be good for pulling heavy trailers because of the power delivery characteristics.

Not at all sure about a weight "arms race" to get more range. As far as I am concerned there are enough bad drivers already with overweight cars capable of causing massive damage to anything that gets in their way (check out your local scrapyard for superminis hit up the rear by inattentive SUV drivers).
Making heavier & bigger cars so these jokers can travel further does not seem like a step forward to me.


This appears to be an evolving argument rather than coherent.

You talk about towing and it is perfectly possible for electric cars to perform well in towing tasks, but now it's about the weight of the car...

Well the average tesla model s (given this is the best example to use) weighs about 2 tons (2000kg) which yes is a lot more than an average car but it's also worth bearing in mind it's a luxury car with 7 seats a boot front and back and ample space inside as well as all mod cons, then doesn't seam all that heavy (say compared to a BMW 5 series, which is an equivalent car at 1900kg)

The Nissan Leaf is about 1500kg compared to a say a golf at 1400-1500kg the weight doesn't need to be that much greater, what I said above is you can load a modern caravan with a battery pack to offset any loss of Range with an electric car, perfectly do-able and yes would add to the weigh of the whole train, but is not going to be overly significant. As mentioned before, as the technology becomes more common the weight will come down and allow for bigger, not necessarily heavier or physically bigger batteries, bigger as in a higher capacity.
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Old 14-07-2017   #34
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Re: Going electric

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Old 14-07-2017   #35
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Re: Going electric

Looks like we'll all be driving vans then! Especially everyone who lives in the countryside, although with the current building programme, houses on green belt, the countryside will become attached to the cities anyway.

Just had a thought. Any criminal just needs a fully charged car to outrun any police car if its been on patrol more than 30 minutes.
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Old 25-07-2017   #36
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Re: Going electric

Mini announced their all electric model to be built in the UK as of 2019

Electric Mini to be built in Oxford
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40718892
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Old 01-08-2017   #37
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Going electric

Well this was certainly unexpected, having only recently launched their first ever Diesel engine in a Maserati they now totally change tack and are now going for full electrification.

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Marchionne: Maserati to ‘switch all of its portfolio to electrification’ - Autoblog
https://apple.news/Am7PREq5YSGGcCgiHb8hmJQ

That's quite a big step for a company that has yet to bring out a hybrid or electric car.

You could argue La Ferrari is a hybrid but then again it's not part of the fiat stable anymore and costs a million quid.


Apparently reading further down the article, fiat's plan was to move much of its technology over to diesel power as a way of reducing its group emissions, however given the current situation with diesel they have been left floundering behind as other companies stride forward with hybrid and electric tech.

The irony is they've just brought out an unnecessary SUV made a great deal of its powerful petrol and Diesel engines and now they've said it's next incarnation will have to be a hybrid.

Because fiat are so behind on this stuff they don't expect these new generation cars to be out before 2020. When in 3 more years the motoring world could have changed a lot.
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Old 01-08-2017   #38
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Re: Going electric

Soon, we will not be able to walk the streets at night, for fear of tripping over all the charging cables. So many terraced houses, cables trailing everywhere.
And won't be able to go out for an evening in the car either, as a late return would prevent a journey to work and back next day due to insufficient charge.

So many details to fix before 2040.
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Old 02-08-2017   #39
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Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
And won't be able to go out for an evening in the car either, as a late return would prevent a journey to work and back next day due to insufficient charge.
... driving home after an evening out in winter, only to have a thick fog descend, crawling back up the mountain at walking pace, blowers, lights wipers all on full, wondering if the battery will hold out another 3 kilometres?
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Old 02-08-2017   #40
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Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Soon, we will not be able to walk the streets at night, for fear of tripping over all the charging cables. So many terraced houses, cables trailing everywhere.
And won't be able to go out for an evening in the car either, as a late return would prevent a journey to work and back next day due to insufficient charge.

So many details to fix before 2040.
There are so many questions with the broad statement "ban petrol and diesel new car sales by 2040" What about hybrids? Plug in only? If non-plug in how big does the battery & motor have to be? What about other ICE fuels Alcohol, LPG or hydrogen?


More importantly where is the power going to come from?
There are 36 million cars on the road in the UK. If half of those are electric (in 2040) and need a 20kW charge each night (a Tesla S is 60-80kW for full charge, my short work commute would see 8kW in a Leaf) That's 0.02MW x 18,000,000 = 360,000 MW. The current UK generation capacity is 347,000MW WRONG! Thanks Andy I misread table. It's more like 60-80,000 MW (60-80GW). The electric supply and grid would have to be 4.5 times larger! A large nuclear reactor generates 500 MW- 1000MW (thanks again Andy) per reactors even allowing for a factor of 3 (not all cars will be charged at the same time and some daytime capacity can be used, but some plants will be down for maintenance) we would need 100-200 new nuclear reactors. I don't see those on the long term plan!


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Last edited by g8rpi; 03-08-2017 at 07:26. Reason: Updated power figures
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Old 02-08-2017   #41
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Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by Steve145 View Post
... driving home after an evening out in winter, only to have a thick fog descend, crawling back up the mountain at walking pace, blowers, lights wipers all on full, wondering if the battery will hold out another 3 kilometres?
Ahh... but we won't be driving our electric cars by then.

Won't need wipers, or headlights.

Besides, the self-driving car will have already decided that it would have run out of power before arrival, and booked you in to a motel instead.

Of course it'll probably only choose one that sponsors adverts on it's chosen search engine.
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Old 02-08-2017   #42
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Re: Going electric

No, the LIDAR will have failed to spot the herd of wild boar crossing the road due to backscatter from the fog and we'll still finish up walking home.
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Last edited by Steve145; 02-08-2017 at 09:12.
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Old 02-08-2017   #43
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Re: Going electric

Solar roadways + wireless charging would be a great combination. Let the roads soak up the suns energy during the day and keep cars charged as they drive over it, perfect! Of course, solar roadways are (currently) prohibitively expensive (about €2m for a 1km stretch of single carriageway) and wireless charging is still in its infancy with mobiles, so will take a long time to reach vehicular levels. But it's a nice dream.
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Old 02-08-2017   #44
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Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by Eklipze3k View Post
Solar roadways + wireless charging would be a great combination. Let the roads soak up the suns energy during the day and keep cars charged as they drive over it, perfect! Of course, solar roadways are (currently) prohibitively expensive (about €2m for a 1km stretch of single carriageway) and wireless charging is still in its infancy with mobiles, so will take a long time to reach vehicular levels. But it's a nice dream.
1/ How does the light get to the road through the cars?
2/ I don't want to sit in the electromagnetic field from the wireless charger.


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Old 02-08-2017   #45
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Re: Going electric

Even on a busy motorway, most of the road is uncovered for the majority of the day. If every A and M road in the UK (approx 50,000 km) was converted (will never happen, but worth mentioning) that would generate approx 21,000,000 MWh (based figures from this article) - that's a lot! As for sitting in the field, I don't see why you would have to. The field could be configured to only extend a certain range from the road, which would cover the distance from road to floor of car and no further. Sure that relies on all cars' floors being roughly the same distance from the road, so no high-riding 4x4s, lowered cars would work but the occupants would be in the field.

As I said though, it's a pipe dream, where's the profit in essentially free electricity?
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