Register Login
Save up to 15% with Adrian Flux insurance!
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-07-2017   #16
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 4,718
Thanks: 376
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Sadly many of the legislators, and motor industry engineers live in houses with driveways and garages. Plugging in an electric car is possible for them.
The UK has a lot of streets with terraced houses, already with parking problems, so no guarantees of being able to park near your own front door. So we'll need universal charging posts every car length along every residential street, and every car trailing a cable to it. Or shall we just plug into the nearest streetlight? Lots of cables as trip hazards, many to be disconnected overnight by 'pranksters'. Might present a few challenges. A payment process would also be needed.

Range is still an issue. But as most people seem to commute and hardly go anywhere else, not so much a problem. Might cause many companies to rethink car policy, and arrange more meetings by videolink. We have too many people plying the motorways all day for just an hour or two of meaningful work.

Trucks will still be needed. I suppose more freight on trains, and lorries for local deliveries only, then they can be electric too. Re-open the small rail lines.

Another thought. Perhaps we'll use trains more again, and hire an electric car at the other end.

As a driving instructor, I can see another challenge. Currently an electric car is not viable, as two learners a day, then an overnight charge won't meet the costs of the car, let alone anything to live on. So learning costs will probably treble.
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 13 years Driving Instructor & 6 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi

Last edited by portland_bill; 07-07-2017 at 23:19.
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 07-07-2017   #17
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 502
Thanks: 39
Trader Rating: 0
irc has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Just contemplating the idea of a car forum dedicated to a particular model of autonomous electric car, with no driver controls, etc. built by a certain computer company.
What topics would there be to talk about?
Maybe I'm just a Luddite.
__________________
irc
Panda Sporting MultiJet 1.3 "Diesel Weasel"
Panda Eleganza Dualogic 1.2 "Magic Panda"
Panda Active 1.1 "Moley"
Panda Active Eco 1.1
irc is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 08-07-2017   #18
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 217
Thanks: 7
Trader Rating: 0
France 
Re: Going electric

I forsee a significant issue in rural areas, even if they manage to get the range to something acceptable.

Recharging; a Renault Zoe uses 16A for a slow charge and 30A for a medium charge ~5 hours.

We, and most of rural France, only have a 45A supply, I'd be surprised if it were any different in the rest of Europe.

So, given that a couple, living in a rural area with no public transport, both working, are going to need two cars, charging is going to be a serious problem, even if we do have the space to park.

I don't see them upgrading the entire electricity grid...
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

Steve145 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 08-07-2017   #19
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 4,718
Thanks: 376
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by Steve145 View Post
I forsee a significant issue in rural areas, even if they manage to get the range to something acceptable.

Recharging; a Renault Zoe uses 16A for a slow charge and 30A for a medium charge ~5 hours.

We, and most of rural France, only have a 45A supply, I'd be surprised if it were any different in the rest of Europe.

So, given that a couple, living in a rural area with no public transport, both working, are going to need two cars, charging is going to be a serious problem, even if we do have the space to park.

I don't see them upgrading the entire electricity grid...
I see an increase in car club type sharing, where you use the car for the journey, then abandon it, someone else takes it from there. Just needs bigger banks of waiting cars, as they slowly charge. However, rural is still an issue, as you'd have to be renting it all the time you kept it, awaiting its next journey. And who wants to rent a car just in from the countryside, possibly with the countryside still in it.

UK homes have a 100A main fuse in the cable before the meter, and our cookers and electric showers are usually on a 45A supply, sometimes higher. However, I can see problems if someone arrives home, plugs the car in on a fast charge because they are going out again, then has a shower. Pop!
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 13 years Driving Instructor & 6 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-07-2017   #20
***** Whore
 
StevenRB45's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 5,270
Thanks: 76
Trader Rating: 0
StevenRB45 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Announced this morning, the replacement for the tx4



Link to full article Here

First none diesel black cab for decades, headlines for those who can't be bothered to click through. 70 mile all electric range + 1.3l petrol range extending engine. No mention of the engine driving the wheels directly in the article but it's still rear drive with an engine in the front.

Oh and they are changing the name of the company as they plan to build many other styles of commercials on a similar platform.

Another company owned by Geely, and shares parts with Volvo so not your usual clever but poorly funded British effort.
Likes AndyRKett liked this post
__________________
StevenRB45 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-07-2017   #21
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 8,132
Thanks: 353
Blog Entries: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by StevenRB45 View Post



Another company owned by Geely, and shares parts with Volvo so not your usual clever but poorly funded British effort.

It seems while tesla are very loud and vocal about the future of electric, geely have some 10 years of electric car research and development, and are finally putting it to good use, sneaking it in slowly and under the radar, that said if this taxi is a success then it may hail a big change in public perception of electric vehicles.
__________________
For all my Punto and Punto Grande Instructional Videos Visit My YouTube page
MyNew Website is now at www.puntohowto.com
Or check out the Facebook Punto page
AndyRKett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-07-2017   #22
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Dorset
Posts: 7,471
Thanks: 789
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Given the running cost of a new car over the years, the technology might be more expensive to start but in the long run it's going to save you so much more. More people can afford a 30k car if they don't have to pay 50 a week in petrol.
By far the largest part of that 50 is fuel duty and VAT; if the market as a whole goes all-electric, then that tax will have to be recovered from the motorist in other ways. There's no way of marking electricity for road use (as we do with diesel fuel), so my guess is that it will be done by road pricing or some new tax based on mileage driven. In the long term, running costs for EV's will be determined more by fiscal policy than by technology.

The current low per-mile direct operating cost for EV's can't last.

Canny motorists need to have an eye for the bargains; right now, if you only drive short journeys and can charge at home, a secondhand leaf with a partially worn battery bought cheaply might make good economic sense. Their value may drop close to scrap once the cost of battery replacement exceeds the value of the car, and if you can make good use of what's left of the range...

Thinking long term, one fundamental change will likely be a reduction in personal car ownership and use. More than a few folks will ultimately replace their fossil fuelled vehicles with ... nothing. This article is quite old, but interesting nonetheless. A substantial decline in young folk learning to drive is current in the press.

In cities, increased availability of cheaper taxis could be a game changer. Affordable personal transport when you need it, without the fixed costs.
__________________


"Just 'cos you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you"


Last edited by jrkitching; 12-07-2017 at 10:20.
jrkitching is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-07-2017   #23
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,144
Thanks: 862
Trader Rating: 0
Ziggy122 has donated!
Eggs Champion, Fruit Pairs Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

What about people who tow caravans and trailers for example

Now i know electric motors are more than capable of doing so!

Hell tbh they'd probably be better!

But currently no electric cars that i know of yet - can actually get an off shel towbar

So that leaves the hybrids todo the work only?

Ziggy
__________________
!!WANTED!! 3dr Mk2 Punto Roof Bars !!WANTED!!

Meet Bumble-Bee


Ziggy122 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-07-2017   #24
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 502
Thanks: 39
Trader Rating: 0
irc has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

With the size of most of the caravans I see nowadays (usually towed behind ever-larger SUVs) the achievable range might be a problem. The newer caravans seem to be taller, wider and longer every year. I know they are supposedly using lighter construction, but....

Can't see much benefit in a caravan holiday with really limited range. Might as well hook-up in the garden and pretend.

Could be a reason for even bigger, heavier SUVs to fit the batteries, or maybe the beginning of the end for caravans?
__________________
irc
Panda Sporting MultiJet 1.3 "Diesel Weasel"
Panda Eleganza Dualogic 1.2 "Magic Panda"
Panda Active 1.1 "Moley"
Panda Active Eco 1.1
irc is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-07-2017   #25
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 16,144
Thanks: 862
Trader Rating: 0
Ziggy122 has donated!
Eggs Champion, Fruit Pairs Champion
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by irc View Post
With the size of most of the caravans I see nowadays (usually towed behind ever-larger SUVs) the achievable range might be a problem. The newer caravans seem to be taller, wider and longer every year. I know they are supposedly using lighter construction, but....

Can't see much benefit in a caravan holiday with really limited range. Might as well hook-up in the garden and pretend.

Could be a reason for even bigger, heavier SUVs to fit the batteries, or maybe the beginning of the end for caravans?
i have a feeling it may yes - Kill the market of caravaning....

As if you like me - keep going away for weekends when i can
you need to have a decent range and ability to pull - espically if you end up in derbyshire!

Ziggy
__________________
!!WANTED!! 3dr Mk2 Punto Roof Bars !!WANTED!!

Meet Bumble-Bee


Ziggy122 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-07-2017   #26
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 8,132
Thanks: 353
Blog Entries: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

The power side of things is no problem with electric cars at the moment towing a caravan wouldn't be an issue, the range would be the issue but the current model a tesla gives around 300 miles on a charge and using a tesla charging point can (i seem to think) charge the car in 30 minutes which is a motorway service station toilet and coffee break really. There are charging stations at the Euro-tunnel terminals both sides so you could drive down, charge while waiting to board and work your way across the county while utilising the charging stations that are popping up, as more people buy the technology, the more charging stations pop up. When I was a kid growing up we used to stop at motorway services all the time on long journeys, these days kids get plugged into games consoles or DVDs so people don't need to stop so often, however it never used to be an issue to stop, I suspect either people would except it as part of the technology or they will increase the capacity of the batteries till it's no longer an issue, which is likely to happen anyway as the technology gets cheaper.

At the moment the prices of the batteries versus the cost of the car is what decides the range, the model S is a 'luxury' car so they charge 70k for it and can therefore afford a bigger more expensive battery. The new model 3 is 27k and had about two thirds of the range of its bigger brother.
__________________
For all my Punto and Punto Grande Instructional Videos Visit My YouTube page
MyNew Website is now at www.puntohowto.com
Or check out the Facebook Punto page
AndyRKett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-07-2017   #27
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 502
Thanks: 39
Trader Rating: 0
irc has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Not at all sure the low slippery shape of a Tesla towing something heavy, wider, twice as high, and with the aerodynamics of a housebrick will get near to that range yet.
Also, even filling up with petrol/diesel at a UK services with a big caravan is already a problem for some non-caravan drivers - they really don't seem to like caravanners. Stopping at one for 30 mins to recharge might work if the recharging area is suitably designed, but... just redirecting caravans to the HGV area might annoy the truckers, and sharing with solo cars will almost certainly annoy the solo car drivers.

Maybe sometime in the future, but hard to see that towing caravans will be a priority design decision in the near future, for car manufacturers or service stop designers.
__________________
irc
Panda Sporting MultiJet 1.3 "Diesel Weasel"
Panda Eleganza Dualogic 1.2 "Magic Panda"
Panda Active 1.1 "Moley"
Panda Active Eco 1.1
irc is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-07-2017   #28
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 8,132
Thanks: 353
Blog Entries: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by irc View Post
Not at all sure the low slippery shape of a Tesla towing something heavy, wider, twice as high, and with the aerodynamics of a housebrick will get near to that range yet.
Also, even filling up with petrol/diesel at a UK services with a big caravan is already a problem for some non-caravan drivers - they really don't seem to like caravanners. Stopping at one for 30 mins to recharge might work if the recharging area is suitably designed, but... just redirecting caravans to the HGV area might annoy the truckers, and sharing with solo cars will almost certainly annoy the solo car drivers.

Maybe sometime in the future, but hard to see that towing caravans will be a priority design decision in the near future, for car manufacturers or service stop designers.


Of course it's not likely you'll get 300 miles towing a building behind you, however the range may still get you 150 miles or so which is still better than some current electric cars like the leaf.

That said there is nothing to say future caravans won't incorporate electric car technologies, allowing the caravan to carry additional batteries to maintain the range of the electric car despite the extra weight.
__________________
For all my Punto and Punto Grande Instructional Videos Visit My YouTube page
MyNew Website is now at www.puntohowto.com
Or check out the Facebook Punto page
AndyRKett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-07-2017   #29
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 502
Thanks: 39
Trader Rating: 0
irc has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
That said there is nothing to say future caravans won't incorporate electric car technologies, allowing the caravan to carry additional batteries to maintain the range of the electric car despite the extra weight.
But that might mean leaving out essentials like the second TV or the 6-burner barbeque to stay within towing weight. Not sure how popular that would be with the type of caravanner who buys those monsters 🤔
__________________
irc
Panda Sporting MultiJet 1.3 "Diesel Weasel"
Panda Eleganza Dualogic 1.2 "Magic Panda"
Panda Active 1.1 "Moley"
Panda Active Eco 1.1
irc is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 13-07-2017   #30
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Norfolk UK
Posts: 8,132
Thanks: 353
Blog Entries: 8
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Going electric

Quote Originally Posted by irc View Post
But that might mean leaving out essentials like the second TV or the 6-burner barbeque to stay within towing weight.

Given the torque that electric cars have, the extra weight won't slow them down much, it really all comes down to range.
__________________
For all my Punto and Punto Grande Instructional Videos Visit My YouTube page
MyNew Website is now at www.puntohowto.com
Or check out the Facebook Punto page
AndyRKett is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
(T) electric down chanblar Stilo 1 29-05-2016 20:52
128 Electric Spider ElectricMatt13 Newbie Central 0 01-12-2013 19:37
(T) electric window frannie52 Punto (Mk1) 1 30-11-2013 19:21
Electric Six brickfoot Leisure Lounge 1 19-02-2005 01:19
Electric Help Sy FIAT Boo Archives 3 15-11-2003 12:24