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Old 09-08-2016   #1
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VW Forum

Just been on a VW forum asking about a problem my uncle is having with his Bora.. Hoped to find the same level of enthusiasm, help and liveliness on there as the Fiat Forum - if not more given the popularity of VW..

Anyway, saw a diesel scandal section and went on it to see what they all thought.. they're all sticking up for the company?!

"what did you lose?" etc, defending VW .. strange or what?!

I don't see any of us Fiat fans defending their customer service?! Madness.
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Old 09-08-2016   #2
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Re: VW Forum

We VW owners are a delusional bunch. It's usually the oiks with 20 year old polos with stretched tyres and rat look (rusty) wheel arches, who take this approach.

There is not really any excuse for what VW did but they are paying a hefty price now for cheating.
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Old 09-08-2016   #3
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Re: VW Forum

You don't like to think a manufacturer you put your faith and trust in would sanction illegal actions at a corporate level for monetary gain. Customer service wise is different, you know it's bad because it happened to you. Whereas the VW business is more ethereal, there are no direct victims, resale values perhaps but you'd have the devils own job linking a direct cause from the emissions fakery to a health effect.

There were similar conversations on many other owners forums, over in Mazda world there was concern, the share price tanked as they sell more diesels than any other Japanese manufacturer. Luckily despite the in use testing of their engines hitting 6 times legal limits they didn't use illegal methods to reach their pie in the sky figures.

If anything I watch with interest as to where we go from here I see VW are introducing PPFs in anticipation of the new "real world" regime.
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Old 10-08-2016   #4
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Ahh the vag bunch are deluded. The only community where they refuse to believe their cars have any flaws. I've been in the Vauxhall scene with cavaliers and Novas (Performance Nova Group, great bunch of people, most of whom hate Novas but they get under your skin...) and other multi car forums. Also had the misfortune of owning a golf mk2 GTi. I was told they were great! They aren't. I was told they were reliable! Lie. I was told they are well engineered! Like most vag products, over engineered for the sake of over engineering. But ask any vag fan, and they won't have it. A good friend of mine is a vag devotee, mocked me for my old merc (it's just a lazy auto taxi) that never went wrong, and mocks my panda (what a **** crapper that is. Can't even fit your lunch in it etc etc). He drives an unreliable 1991 Jetta, that's cost more in the last 12 months to keep roadworthy than I've spent on the panda.

I'm sorry, I'm rambling, but I really, really, REALLY hate vag.
,
"Mk4 1.9 tdi is dead reliable" so I did a head gasket after a week...
"Vr6 is the strongest engine ever" so I did four swaps on the same car in six months...
And anything that goes wrong with them, do a Google search, bound to come up with "common fault", but aren't they flippin' great...

Back on topic, what's the issue?
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Old 10-08-2016   #5
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Re: VW Forum

It does sicken me, as many VW fanboys will talk about how good the 'German engineering' is, and are quick to laugh at Fiat and their seeming past of reliability issues and rust (not that it's true, but they seem to all assume so).. yet Fiat has delivered with the likes of the small and light MultiJet diesel engine so where exactly do we 'fall behind' VW seeing as Fiat are another example of an innovating car maker with their own technologies..

..does it all come down to the size of their marketing budget?

One interesting point someone made to me was that years ago in the 70s/80s when cars generally rusted much easier VW were one of the companies who used higher grade steel and as a result stood the test of time a bit more dignifyingly than other lower quality models.. But I doubt today in 2016 this type of comparison stands.. in 10 more years when Chinese steel rules.. well.. maybe so
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Old 10-08-2016   #6
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Re: VW Forum

It's a company that makes money first, cars second. To be fair they make OK cars, it's just the marketing puff that goes with them that's hilarious, they like to pretend they do things properly. If they didn't present the world with the absolute smugness of their marketing it wouldn't be as funny when it went tits up.

That and there's the whole platform sharing between multiple direct competitors which puts me off. If you buy a Leon is it the best if could be, or is it how it is to be better than a Skoda but worse than a VW or Audi? Theoretically a given set of components will have an optimum setting, but unless you work for Audi can you use that? Or do you have to engineer crappiness to keep the brand hierarchy? Then there's the wild variations between the costs of the same chassis built with the same components to the same standard. Yes the trim does vary but the majority goes straight to the companies bottom line...

Then there's the options lists...oh god the options lists...sir expects a multi function steering wheel with leather on your 24k car? You need the highline trip computer for that, that's only available as part of a pack including mud flaps and some other unrelated items you don't want. Climate control? I know it's standard on everything else at this price level but you'll need to pay more, and specify the winter pack if you want a heated window...social engineering at its finest.
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Old 10-08-2016   #7
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Re: VW Forum

There are some truths in some aspects of VW history, they definitely use thicker metal they also use boron alloys in safety critical parts of body shells, the doors on my golf have had quite a beating over the last year, including two trips to France were they care little about smashing doors into other people's cars, and so far my golf shows no dings or dents, which is pretty damn impressive. By Puntos on the other hand only need to pass a supermarket to pick up half a dozen dents.

Fiat have done great things with the little 1.3 multijet, the 1.9 was an old engine with new software and to be honest the VW TDI engines are the staple diet of every vag car for years and years to come, they are generally strong and reliable if used and maintained properly and there was a story in a VW magazine recently about a touran owner racking up 500,000 miles in about 4 years 10,000 miles a month having it serviced every month. They are generally bomb proof, but people who are not fans of VW like to pick on the fact that there are cars that break down as with any manufacturer and use that as proof they are not reliable. Pretty much all mini cabs over the last 15 years have been Octavias fitting with some sort of tdi engine.
Doesn't mean that fiat do a bad job, what they don't do is bigger cars and cars for long distance cruising.

Fiat innovate but they launch their innovations on cars without the longer term testing which means they suffer quality issues, round my way the twinair has a terrible reputation and has damaged the fiat brand.

Fiats do still rust and used to rest terribly. Most mk2 puntos are suffering with bad rust problems causing MOT fails and resulting in cars getting scrapped. VWs rust as well but these are generally older, late 90s cars by which point the car has been scrapped or picked up by some youth to 'rat look'.

The first rule of marketing anything is to have absolute belief in your product, as a general rule fiat don't appear to have this belief and they doesn't get portrayed to prospective customers. VW are not afraid to tell buyers 'we are the best' and this sells cars and keeps people coming back for years. Another thing VW have in their side are thousands of beetles and campers dating back to the 1960s still trundling about on the roads which to buyers of new cars shouts reliability and longevity
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