AndyRKett said:

As I said it comes down to what value you put on safety, if you think that your car is ‘good enough’ well that’s very much your decision to make, but every so often someone crashes an old car into a new car, usually fifth gear, and as yet I have never seen the old car do well in this sort of test, in fact it’s usually catastrophic for the older car driver.

Click to expand...

Granted, I haven't seen any recent Fifth Gear episodes, but the crash tests I have seen, and presumably the 1s you're referring to, involved cars designed in the late 80s/early 90s. And yes, the 5 star cars from the mid 00s absolutely destroyed them, to the extent that in the case of the Volvo 940 vs Renault Modus, people claim that they're rigged and they took the engine out of the older car to make it perform so badly!

500l which is based on the Punto platform



Safe as houses? Ha!

Here’s the saloon version of my car.

[ame]https://youtu.be/pheTmywzWjk[/ame]

Punto doesn’t feel so safe now does it?

[ame]https://youtu.be/PYfM_o4MBHA[/ame]

Mine gets a TSP top safety pick!

I have to say I’m very impressed with my safety features on my car. All sorts of collision avoidance, pedestrian detections, etc

Nicely done. You can see that the area at the front bulkhead is obviously shaped to deflect the car away from whatever it’s hit and get the wheel out of the arch ASAP as wheels sometimes end up punching through into the cabin which is errrrrr suboptimal.

306maxi said:

Here’s the saloon version of my car.



https://youtu.be/pheTmywzWjk



Punto doesn’t feel so safe now does it?

Click to expand...

Yeah at the end of the day a 44tonne lorry going into a Mercedes G Wagon is going to leave you lucky to be alive... so don’t pretend your VAG’s are tanks and Fiat’s are made from reinforced cardboard.. Theoretical safety is all relative and based on so many variables that may or may not reply to a real world situation.

To be honest I can learn from what AndyRKett says (most of the time) but 306maxi, why do you come on here if all you’re good for is insulting Fiat and ridiculing anyone who enjoys talking about them in a remotely positive manner? Your credibility to me is lost anyway..

SB1500 said:

Yeah at the end of the day a 44tonne lorry going into a Mercedes G Wagon is going to leave you lucky to be alive... so don’t pretend your VAG’s are bloody tanks and Fiat’s are made from reinforced cardboard.. Theoretical safety is all relative and based on so many variables that may or may not reply to a real world situation.

To be honest I can learn from what AndyRKett says (most of the time) but 306maxi, why do you come on here if all you’re good for is insulting Fiat and ridiculing anyone who enjoys talking about them in a remotely positive manner? Your credibility to me is lost anyway..

Click to expand...

My VAGs? What are you on about? I own a bloody BMW, not a VAG product. If you don’t know that BMW and VAG aren’t related then perhaps it’s you that has no credibility.

If you actually read what I’m saying you’ll understand the point I making, which is that other companies have modern platforms and Fiat is stuck with platforms which are not far off having the ability to get a driving licence and vote in elections.

Sorry for actually backing up what I say with evidence which you sadly don’t like.

I suspect I’ve owned more Fiats than you have tbh.

306maxi said:

My VAGs? What are you on about? I own a bloody BMW, not a VAG product. If you don’t know that BMW and VAG aren’t related then perhaps it’s you that has no credibility.



If you actually read what I’m saying you’ll understand the point I making, which is that other companies have modern platforms and Fiat is stuck with platforms which are not far off having the ability to get a driving licence and vote in elections.



Sorry for actually backing up what I say with evidence which you sadly don’t like.



I suspect I’ve owned more Fiats than you have tbh.

Click to expand...

My mistake, BMW. Still though, it’s safer but I wouldn’t be under any illusions as to it being more than marginally safer than anything else. It looks very like a Passat from the side at first glance.. my mistake.

You’ve also got to look into the list price of that BMW and the list price of most FIAT’s and anyone could guess a lot less R&D can go into these things..

I’m no expert but I think some people are only looking to provoke on here when they’re constantly putting a downer on anything Fiat. Quite annoying to be honest.

I’m not really depended on for information on here, I more depend on others and occasionally chime in on these Leisure Lounge threads but to be honest its probably time to stop.

The clue is in the name.

Again you misunderstand. The Panda was a great car when it launched, but by the time it was replaced in 2012 it was pretty tired and pretty outdated. To then reckon it and sell it as the next gen Panda was pretty shambolic.

The drivetrain and electronics in the Panda/500 are fairly bulletproof, BUT things like the suspension and brakes are pretty cheaply specced and will give the typical user trouble over a few years of ownership.

306maxi said:

And as usual you’re missing the point. Crash strength is somewhat of an arms race. Cars are getting more and more high strength steel and in some cases cars are even getting carbon fibre in places like B pillars.

So that Grande which might have been just find in 2005 will have a hole punched through it by a much stronger car in 2017.

A car from 10 years ago will be massively dated inside compared to a newer car. Infotainment is massively important nowadays, if you came into work with me you’d be massively surprised at the fact by how many people are working on infotainment. I’d say that for every 5 people in the electrical engineering department, there is one person working on the infotainment system. The other 80% of people are working on Powertrain (engine and gearbox), Safety (airbags and so on), driver assistance (automatic cruise control, mono camera, night vision, rear and front view cameras, parking distance control, ESP, braking), switchgear, body electronics (body control modules, door/window ecus, spoiler, HVAC), harness and clipping, lighting and testing.

So that’s 20% of people devoted to the screen in the dash, the kombi (instrument cluster to normal people) and the speaker’s.

Fiat’s efforts with infotainment at the moment are pretty laughable in comparison to what the competition has been doing for years now.

Click to expand...

Quite frankly, I think that a lot of the infotainment systems fitted to cars nowadays should be illegal, as there's just too much potential distraction for the driver.

Fiats' infotainment is a joke? My Grande is nearly 10 years old, and I have a CD player, and a USB socket so I can play tracks from a memory stick through the stereo, and if I had a brand new Fiat, there's a good chance it would have DAB. Realistically, what more do I want?! With regards to dashboards, I have a speedo, a fuel gauge, a temperature gauge and a tachometer. The screen underneath the dials tells me the outside temperature, the mileage, what track/radio station is playing or other bits of info. I repeat, what more do I want?! [emoji52]

With regards to driver aids, I have ABS, which I want. In 10 years, I have never needed any other aids. Personally, I feel that if the driving conditions need electronic assistance, then you should really be questioning the need to be driving in them at all.

306maxi said:

The clue is in the name.



Again you misunderstand. The Panda was a great car when it launched, but by the time it was replaced in 2012 it was pretty tired and pretty outdated. To then reckon it and sell it as the next gen Panda was pretty shambolic.



The drivetrain and electronics in the Panda/500 are fairly bulletproof, BUT things like the suspension and brakes are pretty cheaply specced and will give the typical user trouble over a few years of ownership.

Click to expand...

Yeah I do feel stupid for missing that... no comeback there.

I know, and it’s quite annoying that Fiat were able to make the 2003 Panda - a fairly decent car that saved them from financial failure and as soon as the money came in .. the 500, another commercial success... but every penny since has been spent with them trying to compete in areas they aren’t historically good at. Don’t get me wrong I like em, but I do see your points about how well if maybe they’d try a bit harder they might have a chance at competing with the likes of the Focus with the Tipo. I wish they would focus more on their small and city cars - what they’re good at when they try - and quit recycling parts for too long too.

No idea why they keep trying to dilute the focus and haven’t realised themselves that people carriers and medium sizes saloons aren’t their strong point. I don’t think buying Chrysler helped either really even though Jeep has picked up a bit.

Though for many of us; even with the identical inside parts under the current Panda being the same and far from high tech, they are fairly ‘bulletproof’ as you say. And parts are quite cheap and easy to work on. Personally that’s good enough for me. And probably a lot of people too. And it won’t last forever. Even a ‘simple’ Panda has complex electrics really even if it has less gadgets plugged into it and over time Fiat will have to redevelop or fail... but for the sake of us DIY car repair folk with slimmer wallets.. were trying to enjoy it for as long as it lasts. That’s my orientation on it anyway. I don’t think everyone should follow, but come on, it’s not crazy either! There’s some sensible thought involved.

puntofan01 said:

Quite frankly, I think that a lot of the infotainment systems fitted to cars nowadays should be illegal, as there's just too much potential distraction for the driver.

Fiats' infotainment is a joke? My Grande is nearly 10 years old, and I have a CD player, and a USB socket so I can play tracks from a memory stick through the stereo, and if I had a brand new Fiat, there's a good chance it would have DAB. Realistically, what more do I want?! With regards to dashboards, I have a speedo, a fuel gauge, a temperature gauge and a tachometer. The screen underneath the dials tells me the outside temperature, the mileage, what track/radio station is playing or other bits of info. I repeat, what more do I want?! [emoji52]

With regards to driver aids, I have ABS, which I want. In 10 years, I have never needed any other aids. Personally, I feel that if the driving conditions need electronic assistance, then you should really be questioning the need to be driving in them at all.

Click to expand...

The infotainment on mine has voice activation button on the steering wheel. I can press this to use voice commands for all sorts of function including heating, telling it which artist or song I want on, setting the destination in the sat nav amongst others. It also works very well and means I don’t have to take my eyes off the road making it safer.

It also reminds me a little of Fiats blue&me as it’s Microsoft and she still has a similar voice [emoji23]

Taking my eyes off the road for a second to change the temperature is no less safe than taking my eyes off the road to check my mirrors.

I have a portable sat nav, which I set before beginning my journey...

I think those new cars where every control is on a touch screen is a lethally dangerous move.

Most of the time I feel for the dials in the car. Let alone having to focus on and process and coordinate to use a touch screen button whilst I should be keeping the car straight and not fiddling around with a monitor.

I must be missing something but because it seems to be prevailing on all the latest, hottest cars like Volvos as Tesla’s!

puntofan01 said:

Taking my eyes off the road for a second to change the temperature is no less safe than taking my eyes off the road to check my mirrors.

I have a portable sat nav, which I set before beginning my journey...

Click to expand...

With all due respect it comes across as you not having driven a modern car before.

If you’ve not driven a modern car then you won’t know what you’re missing.

puntofan01 said:

Taking my eyes off the road for a second to change the temperature is no less safe than taking my eyes off the road to check my mirrors.

I have a portable sat nav, which I set before beginning my journey...

Click to expand...

It depends on how it is designed.

Here we have the sort of system you dislike..


I thought it would be a bit of a job but actually it isn't. Hvac controls, well it has climate for a start so you use them once a week (and those lights around the screen are shortcuts) but if you need to demist, those 2 buttons below the screen? Front and rear demist.

Need to change the stereo? Well theres buttons on the wheel to change source and station.

Car settings? They are locked unless you're stationary.

Sat Nav? Uses the whole screen but is properly integrated so the bar at the top shows current heating, time e.t.c.

Also works with phones own voice commands if you must for whatever..though I'm used to not doing that sort of thing while driving so still don't even when I could.

Bear in mind..the Grande Punto apparently competes with this car currently.

I have physical buttons and screen split into 4 segments



And more information displayed within the central LCD panel

AndyRKett said:

It very much depends what price you put on your own health and safety.

Click to expand...

Funny you say that, my gen3 Prii safety rating and knee airbag are one thing that stopped by changing to a Leaf when I looked at them last summer.

I wait to see if the new Leaf now coming out has a knee airbag.

JimbbobW1977 said:

View attachment 186059

View attachment 186060

Mine didn’t do to badly in a 30ish mph impact. I walked away from that with no injuries nor did the airbags activate

Click to expand...

Sorry, but thats not typical of a 30mph impact. What did you hit?

puntofan01 said:

Quite frankly, I think that a lot of the infotainment systems fitted to cars nowadays should be illegal, as there's just too much potential distraction for the driver.[emoji52]

Click to expand...

On the contrary, you fiddling with your system, adjusting of the heating will be far more of a risk in your car than me using my steering controls for heating or voice control for Ice and navigation system.

puntofan01 said:

Personally, I feel that if the driving conditions need electronic assistance, then you should really be questioning the need to be driving in them at all.

Click to expand...

You won't be saying that when you swerve at 50-60MPH to miss and Elk etc and don't have ESP.

You can be the best driver in the world, but events can still occur which you have no control over!

puntofan01 said:

Taking my eyes off the road for a second to change the temperature is no less safe than taking my eyes off the road to check my mirrors.

Click to expand...

Not, but its the taking your hands off the wheel at the same time that technically is.

306maxi said:

With all due respect it comes across as you not having driven a modern car before.

If you’ve not driven a modern car then you won’t know what you’re missing.

Click to expand...

Absolutely, there is a lot of opinion gets thrown about when anything different gets raised here but very little experiance or knoledge to back these things up.

If someone is happy putting a memory stick in their radio and playing a few songs that’s lovely and I’m pleased they are happy, almost all new cars have some similar interface, mine has USB and SD card slots. The mini had a usb and Aux input, the Mercedes we have at the moment has 2 USB ports and an SD card slot.

But all three cars can be plugged directly into my phone and access all the music on there.... and all the pod casts and audio books and of course what the rest of us are doing now in 2017, we can directly stream from our phones on things like Spotify and amazon prime music, without any hassle and using only the buttons on the steering wheel to skip pause play, we can use our voices to search out songs or new content without taking our eyes off the road and intergrated systems allow the handling of calls in and out and reads out text messages, all to avoid the temptation to touch your phone, which usually gets tucked away In a little box.
Apple CarPlay, android auto, app connect, Garmin etc all manor of highly advanced technology all built into the dash working seemlessly and safely, and designed to keep concentration 100% on the road and not on the screen in the middle of the dash.

Don’t need a portable satnav with these new set ups because everything can be streamed from a phone, no map updates because the maps are always the most updated you’d get from Apple or google maps. No mounts on the screen obscuring your view of the road, or distracting your attention when they drop off.

Seriously Puntofan, you need to learn, you can’t say something is good or bad until you’ve actually tried it, used it, lived with it, then you can comment.
SB1500 I wasn’t comeparing fiat to vag or indeed any other manufacturer, what I was saying was that any new car is going to be superior in an like for like accident to any old car. As maxi pointed out a 2017car will punch a hole though a 10 year old car even if it’s bigger. If cars didn’t improve with time no one would ever buy a newer car.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Sorry, but thats not typical of a 30mph impact. What did you hit?

Click to expand...

It was a 40mph dual carriageway where I was doing 40, taxi driver pulled out of a side road across my path I braked so estimate potentially 30ish impact



His car span off down the road