StevenRB45 said:

Also what's your opinion of the MK4? (I feel as though there is deafening silence in it's defence)

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There is still very much a following for the mk4, it's age means it appeals to new drivers who want a vw to get into the vw scene but without buying an older more unreliable car, at the other end of the scale are people paying a fortune for good condition first generation R32 models, which keeps people interested.

I should also add they are a very good car compared to other cars of the same era.

AndyRKett said:

I should also add they are a very good car compared to other cars of the same era.

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Wasn't this the era of the more capable, cheaper, better handling, more reliable and similarly rust prone Focus MK1? A car which retails now for around the same as a mk4. The reason your mk6 has independent rear suspension no less (the mk5 needed it to compete and the 6 is a 5 reworked to be cheaper to build)...although mk 4 is why the focus 2 had damped grab handles, soft touch plastic and was a bit less daring.

If we're talking fast versions...R32 or the legend in it's own lunchtime mk1 Focus RS?

Anything becomes rare and unusual given enough time...even a BL Metro, doesn't it make it any less mediocre.

StevenRB45 said:

Wasn't this the era of the more capable, cheaper, better handling, more reliable and similarly rust prone Focus MK1? A car which retails now for around the same as a mk4.

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But to the discerning 17-18 year old a focus isn't going to get them into the vw scene which is very different from the ford scene

AndyRKett said:

But to the discerning 17-18 year old a focus isn't going to get them into the vw scene which is very different from the ford scene

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Think it rather depends whether you like bags and tyre stretch....

Anywho we both know the point is moot, the truly discerning 17 year old has a corsa 1.2 on finance...

StevenRB45 said:

Anywho we both know the point is moot, the truly discerning 17 year old has a corsa 1.2 on finance...

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Indeed.

Anyway the point is no matter how crap the car if it has a vw badge it will always have a following.

StevenRB45 said:

Think it rather depends whether you like bags and tyre stretch....

Anywho we both know the point is moot, the truly discerning 17 year old has a corsa 1.2 on finance...

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Thank god I bypassed the whole chav car modifying scene malarkey, and went straight for Italian style from day 1, lol!

I was driving in the city yesterday and noticed myself strongly thinking the drivers of all the VW's were crooks. Irrational but I wonder how many others think like that? It was a really strong feeling too.

As far as I can remember all the VW's were somewhat rediculously bigger than my little punto mk2b so that might have had something to do with it. Even so the brand must be damaged if that kind of thought can come into my mind out of almost nowhere. Before this scandal surfaced I would have said that the VW owners were nice caring people. Also irrational I suppose.

I suppose also the fact the VW was the Nazi car is not helping the image in my mind now they have crossed over to the dark side. Previously the VW was the peoples car in my mind.

I wonder how they are going to market their way out of this mess to create a clean image in my mind??

Related to what was going on in my mind I had learnt the previous evening that for $13 you can buy an OBD2 device to turn the immobiliser off on Audi/VW/Seat/SKODA. Given the hundreds of millions? spent on this technology by now you would have thought they could have come up with something that cannot be defeated by a child with a tiny plastic box.

StevenRB45 said:

2 questions come to mind, curiosity only as every day is a school day.

1st would be if while owning a mk3 a tidy mk1/2 had come up and you had the means and plan would you still have kept the mk3 on principle?

Also what's your opinion of the MK4? (I feel as though there is deafening silence in it's defence)

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I'd have kept the mk3 if it was immaculate but the chance to own a mk1 GTi would probably have swayed it for me as its my dream car, the main reason I have a 100hp is because I think it comes closest in terms of the way it drives to a mk1 GTi but with creature comforts.
The mk2 was iconic but it was still quite a heavy old thing and suffered quite a few problems with rust and mechanical issues that many people overlook, its not (in my opinion) as good as everyone seems to think.

Now the mk4..... it wasn't a bad car but shouldn't have been badged as a GTi as it was not and never will be a 'drivers car', my brother had a very nice 3 door 1.8T and it was lovely to cruise in and went like a scolded cat but the handling was average at best and it felt heavy and understeery even with fresh suspension.. the image of the mk4 has forever been ruined by the chav's but a good TDi still makes a good and pretty fast daily hack.

Gavv8 said:

Now the mk4..... it wasn't a bad car but shouldn't have been badged as a GTi as it was not and never will be a 'drivers car', my brother had a very nice 3 door 1.8T and it was lovely to cruise in and went like a scolded cat but the handling was average at best and it felt heavy and understeery even with fresh suspension.. the image of the mk4 has forever been ruined by the chav's but a good TDi still makes a good and pretty fast daily hack.

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I remember seeing top gear ages ago, where they had a drag race between a 2.0 GTI and a Skoda Octavia 1.9 TDI, and the Skoda left the Golf for dead!

puntofan01 said:

I remember seeing top gear ages ago, where they had a drag race between a 2.0 GTI and a Skoda Octavia 1.9 TDI, and the Skoda left the Golf for dead!

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It was probably to make a point about the 115bhp mk4 2.0 golf gti which given its low output is renowned for being crap. They also made a 1.8 turbo at the same time which was much more powerful

Though the skoda being e 1.9 PD would have only been 105hp just a lot more torque. So doubt there was much in the way of leaving the golf "for dead".

Yep the 2.0 engine was a dog and renowned for being so, the 1.8T is a great engine but having said all of that... if I lived in Scotland and needed 'all wheel drive' with a decent amount of comfort and speed i'd have a mk4 V6 4motion in a heartbeat... had a go in one once and it was a very rapid and capable car...lovely interior too.

Saw an 06 VW EOS yesterday - rusting on the wheel arches....

JimbbobW1977 said:

Saw an 06 VW EOS yesterday - rusting on the wheel arches....

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There's often an 06 plate Golf parked down my road with a rusted front wheel arch.

StevenRB45 said:

Wasn't this the era of the more capable, cheaper, better handling, more reliable and similarly rust prone Focus MK1? A car which retails now for around the same as a mk4. The reason your mk6 has independent rear suspension no less (the mk5 needed it to compete and the 6 is a 5 reworked to be cheaper to build)...although mk 4 is why the focus 2 had damped grab handles, soft touch plastic and was a bit less daring.

If we're talking fast versions...R32 or the legend in it's own lunchtime mk1 Focus RS?

Anything becomes rare and unusual given enough time...even a BL Metro, doesn't it make it any less mediocre.

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The R32 is a much easier car to drive fast than the mk1 Focus RS but is quite a heavy old thing.

Gavv8 said:

The R32 is a much easier car to drive fast than the mk1 Focus RS but is quite a heavy old thing.

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The MK1 RS commands a much higher price second hand than the R32 - nearly double the price of the golf for similar age/mileage.

The R32 is just well an R32. Normally tatty looking driven by equally tatty looking people!!

Where as the MK1 RS is a classic now and far more desirable.

JimbbobW1977 said:

The MK1 RS commands a much higher price second hand than the R32 - nearly double the price of the golf for similar age/mileage.

The R32 is just well an R32. Normally tatty looking driven by equally tatty looking people!!

Where as the MK1 RS is a classic now and far more desirable.

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The focus was built specifically for fia homologation reasons to get the focus into the WRC once they'd made as many as were required they didn't make anymore which makes it a very rare car by comparison to the R32, which was made for the public to drive. Ford often makes runs of rare cars for motor sport. The RS200 the racing puma, RS500 escort Mexico lotus cortina, all rare and valuable cars but not really the same deal as vw who tend to build cars for the general population

JimbbobW1977 said:

The MK1 RS commands a much higher price second hand than the R32 - nearly double the price of the golf for similar age/mileage.

The R32 is just well an R32. Normally tatty looking driven by equally tatty looking people!!

Where as the MK1 RS is a classic now and far more desirable.

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R32s are more likely to be bought by chavs these days who think it's cool to drive like a prat.

The focus is indeed a classic and will always be more desirable and collectable than an R32 but having driven both I found the R32 easier to drive quickly, the focus demands more of the driver and ultimately by the time you've got used to it the R is away and gone.

Gavv8 said:

The focus is indeed a classic and will always be more desirable and collectable than an R32 but having driven both I found the R32 easier to drive quickly, the focus demands more of the driver and ultimately by the time you've got used to it the R is away and gone.

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So the RS fits the bill then as a driver car where as the R32 was a bloated Golf with a big engine and little involvement?

JimbbobW1977 said:

fits the bill then as a driver car

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Define drivers car, one mans drivers car is another mans **** box