For my usage I quite like the idea of the Corolla hybrid estate, I think they look quite good in the higher specs and given I roll down hill to work then sit in traffic at 5mph for a bit the engine would be off for most of my commute.

But no android/auto or CarPlay as with all Toyota group products.

Then there's the other issue which is the 16 month old baby, otherwise known as why my centre arm rest in the rear has biscuit ground into it...and why my wifes car smells of off milk. As Andy says there is a certain amount of freedom in running something that's reliable and does the job but you aren't massively concerned about. It's only going to get worse as he gets older...and muddy bikes and stuff come into play.

Many years ago, I worked with a guy who left his comany car at work, using his own car to commute. Only used the company car for business. Lived not too far away, so no benefit in taking it home even for early starts. Would often drive to work to swap cars quite early in the morning.

He had a bit of a negotiation with HMRC, but ended up paying no benefit tax on it. Might be a lot of hassle now. Try an email to HMRC and ask, if that might work for you. Bear in mind of course, that commuting to the office is not considered business mileage, unless normally based at home.

Being home based is the big challenge to that, as the car is technically always available for personal use. It's not the use which is taxed, it's the availability!

And to go down this route, you have to have support of your employer - that's just not going to happen in my case.

StevenRB45 said:

For my usage I quite like the idea of the Corolla hybrid estate, I think they look quite good in the higher specs and given I roll down hill to work then sit in traffic at 5mph for a bit the engine would be off for most of my commute.

But no android/auto or CarPlay as with all Toyota group products.

Then there's the other issue which is the 16 month old baby, otherwise known as why my centre arm rest in the rear has biscuit ground into it...and why my wifes car smells of off milk. As Andy says there is a certain amount of freedom in running something that's reliable and does the job but you aren't massively concerned about. It's only going to get worse as he gets older...and muddy bikes and stuff come into play.

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Not entirely the same but we have two dogs that like muddy puddles, also the Punto is handy for trips to the dump with garden waste.
A convertible with a white leather interior isn’t really suitable for these purposes and my wife’s Mini Countryman while suitable to doing the work doesn’t need the extra wear and tear as long as we have the Punto.

That said I really should get rid of it as I’m barely using either of my cars at the moment since changing jobs and now getting the train to work most of the time.

Schumi2001 said:

Being home based is the big challenge to that, as the car is technically always available for personal use. It's not the use which is taxed, it's the availability!

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:yeahthat:

Generally speaking, trying to avoid paying tax on a vehicle which sits on your drive every night is considered not to be worth the hassle of exposing both yourself and/or your employer to an HMRC investigation.

There are exceptions, but they are rare indeed.

AndyRKett said:

Not entirely the same but we have two dogs that like muddy puddles, also the Punto is handy for trips to the dump with garden waste.
A convertible with a white leather interior isn’t really suitable for these purposes and my wife’s Mini Countryman while suitable to doing the work doesn’t need the extra wear and tear as long as we have the Punto.

That said I really should get rid of it as I’m barely using either of my cars at the moment since changing jobs and now getting the train to work most of the time.

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That is the thing I've sat in some lovely cars, even something as mundane as a 308 tech edition has a grey suede interior with blue stripes. Part of me looks at that and goes "I like that looks really nice compared to my very early 10s jap car.." other part goes "chocolate and poo will be an absolute nightmare to get off that material".

I could get leather instead, but because the child seat applies pressure in very specific points on the seat for months on end it'll wreck that as well in the long run. Not only that but the top tether if fitted to the required tightness takes a bite out of the top of the seat.

Fun times, may abandon the Mazda to family duties and get an E208 (they are a really nice looking car imho) as a work/adult car which only I will get to drive and children shall be banned.

StevenRB45 said:

That is the thing I've sat in some lovely cars, even something as mundane as a 308 tech edition has a grey suede interior with blue stripes. Part of me looks at that and goes "I like that looks really nice compared to my very early 10s jap car.." other part goes "chocolate and poo will be an absolute nightmare to get off that material".

I could get leather instead, but because the child seat applies pressure in very specific points on the seat for months on end it'll wreck that as well in the long run. Not only that but the top tether if fitted to the required tightness takes a bite out of the top of the seat.

Fun times, may abandon the Mazda to family duties and get an E208 (they are a really nice looking car imho) as a work/adult car which only I will get to drive and children shall be banned.

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I wouldn’t call the 308 mundane personally. It’s cheap, sure. But the French don’t do boring. I’d happily call a lot of more expensive cars mundane where the designers have mistaken ‘premium’ for ‘boring’ in the finishes and colour schemes. 308’s got a bit of flair to it!

SB1500 said:

I wouldn’t call the 308 mundane personally. It’s cheap, sure. But the French don’t do boring. I’d happily call a lot of more expensive cars mundane where the designers have mistaken ‘premium’ for ‘boring’ in the finishes and colour schemes. 308’s got a bit of flair to it!

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When I say mundane.. no one has ever said "at last I can have a well specced family hatch, I've wanted one of those since I was boy".

Maybe if it was a Golf R or Focus RS or similar then you're moving in a different direction but these are cars of practicality and day in day out concerns.

In much the same as my current car, they are cars that facilitate events happening around them they are not an event in themselves unless something goes wrong.

That's not to say they can't be nice, usable, comfortable, spacious it's just they aren't necessarily inspiring.

I've had my car 6 years next year, love it, got 1000 good memories that happened in and around it but I entirely understand it will never be a classic..or an object of desire, it's just a tool for doing the job.

Put it this way 95% of the experiences I've had in my car, would have been in the same in any other similar car. The job of this type of car is to be like a good pair of shoes, you don't necessarily think about it just does the job with no fuss.

StevenRB45 said:

I could get leather instead, but because the child seat applies pressure in very specific points on the seat for months on end it'll wreck that as well in the long run. Not only that but the top tether if fitted to the required tightness takes a bite out of the top of the seat.

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Leather is actually the most child friendly and you can get a protector that goes between the seat and the child seat to spread the weight of the child seat.

The doesn’t stop when they get older the stains just change to half chewed sweets, and play doh.

In my case the white leather and muddy paws doesn’t look good but it is easily cleaned off. The white stitching however can still get stained so black leather is much better in these instances, hence why the Punto gets used and abused with its black leather seats.

My last Punto Grande has the entire child hood of two children ground into the seats and they took some serious work, whole interior out to clean to an acceptable level but where still never that great.

StevenRB45: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you still like your Mazda, still enjoy driving it, and it's still good and reliable, there's literally no point in getting rid of it. My car is getting on for 12 years old now, and has 80,000 miles on the clock, but assuming it doesn't fail its next mot catastrophically, I'm in absolutely no hurry to part with it any time soon, as it's still utterly fit for purpose, and it was completely paid for a few days after I got it home!

SB1500 said:

I wouldn’t call the 308 mundane personally. It’s cheap, sure. But the French don’t do boring. I’d happily call a lot of more expensive cars mundane where the designers have mistaken ‘premium’ for ‘boring’ in the finishes and colour schemes. 308’s got a bit of flair to it!

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There is a weird paradox with Peugeot’s especially, they can make some very nice looking cars, they can make cars with very nice comfy luxurious interiors, loads of space, clever features, but some how putting the Peugeot badge on it makes instantly turn their nose up and walk away. They are “interesting” cars, but the badge some how saps anyone’s enthusiasm for them.

I think that’s the main reason Citroen went with the DS brand on their “funky” cars.

The Qubo has 93000 on it now, sailed through the Mot at Desira Peugeot recently, treated it to Michelin Cross climates as was scratching at the front and they are very solid.
Am also tempted by the Peugeot offering right now, no brand snobbery here, hell I drive a Qubo! The Rifter is very smart only they needed to look at the back end, and put van style doors on, and looks comparatively dated. The Qubo tail gate is about ok, an inch bigger and they get very unwieldy.
However, no need to change from a car we like that owes us no favour, just keeps going.

puntofan01 said:

StevenRB45: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you still like your Mazda, still enjoy driving it, and it's still good and reliable, there's literally no point in getting rid of it. My car is getting on for 12 years old now, and has 80,000 miles on the clock, but assuming it doesn't fail its next mot catastrophically, I'm in absolutely no hurry to part with it any time soon, as it's still utterly fit for purpose, and it was completely paid for a few days after I got it home!

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puntofan01 said:

StevenRB45: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you still like your Mazda, still enjoy driving it, and it's still good and reliable, there's literally no point in getting rid of it. My car is getting on for 12 years old now, and has 80,000 miles on the clock, but assuming it doesn't fail its next mot catastrophically, I'm in absolutely no hurry to part with it any time soon, as it's still utterly fit for purpose, and it was completely paid for a few days after I got it home!

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Only decision that's been made is C3 is going back at the end of the PCP in 8 months or so (this might seem a long time..but given my son is 17 months old shortly and was born last Tuesday as far as I'm concerned it's not).

Mazda is staying past that point as it's paid for and been well maintained. I've actually spent a grand or so on it in the last year, but 900 quid of that was new all-season tyres and an android auto/CarPlay stereo. It's also had a few other bits and pieces like a new battery and suspension work.

I believe the plan as it stands is I'm buying a new car my wife is getting my old one to replace the C3. So regardless of whether I want to switch cars we need something new as we need 2 cars..and she's had 3 cars in the time I've had mine..so I feel as though it's my go!

It'll probably stay for as long as it is useful as it's worth more as working reliable car to me than it would be as a trade in at this point.

AndyRKett said:

There is a weird paradox with Peugeot’s especially, they can make some very nice looking cars, they can make cars with very nice comfy luxurious interiors, loads of space, clever features, but some how putting the Peugeot badge on it makes instantly turn their nose up and walk away. They are “interesting” cars, but the badge some how saps anyone’s enthusiasm for them.

I think that’s the main reason Citroen went with the DS brand on their “funky” cars.

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Completely agree. I think a lot of the run of the mill brands will struggle / do struggle the same. Even DS with Citroen in its attempts to be premium, some people will just always see them as Citroen / everyday cars I suppose and when it's their money at stake will probably never change

The problem with mainstream brands doing 'premium' is they spectacularly miss the point.

Ford have done it with Vignale - covering everything in a PVC / leather mix and chucking every toy in the book at the dashboard doesn't turn a Mondeo into a 3-series competitor.

Premium isn't about kit levels, it's about the feel and solidity. The Hyundai Kona I hired a couple of weeks ago had loads more toys than my 5 series, but everything you touched felt like it was specified by bean counters. I'd happily have traded kit for more premium materials.

Citroen have done better with the DS range - but then they charge for it. I looked at DS7 pricing and nearly fell off my chair. Over £45k. For a Citroen. You can get a 530e for that kind of outlay.

The attitude in France is very different toward Peugeot, Citroen and Renault, In that they do buy a lot of luxury French cars rather than german and they do hold there value there better than here. The French love their big squishy super comfy seats and everything covered in leather, stainless steel and lots of gadgets thrown in.

Here in the Uk we don’t go for the French brands as much but they are still popular all over europe, similarly fiat obviously owns the car market in Italy.

Sadly French cars especially in the uk still have a strong reputation for being unreliable, I’m sure they really aren’t that bad now but it’s another thing that puts people off.

The French are also not afraid to make and sell niche models, like the aventime the Peugeot RCZ they might not sell in large numbers but plug a hole in the market, also offer some competition to things like the Audi TT. Fiat need to learn to go with a model and not just kill it if it’s not immediately selling a million cars a day, the Punto abarth and the Fiat 124 for example, what’s the point in the abarth brand with its own marketing and dealership space to only sell one car.

AndyRKett said:

The attitude in France is very different toward Peugeot, Citroen and Renault, In that they do buy a lot of luxury French cars rather than german and they do hold there value there better than here. The French love their big squishy super comfy seats and everything covered in leather, stainless steel and lots of gadgets thrown in.

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Must confess I've alays been rather partial to French cars. The R16, whilst possibly one of the ugliest cars ever made (until Fiat came up with the Multipla ) was streets better to drive than any of the contemporary D segment offerings.

The two big problems with French cars used to be reliability and running costs; they were definitely more enjoyable if someone else was picking up the bills.

One of my all time favourites is the Matra 530 (Matra went on to design the Avantime).

I'd say PSA reliability has come on, fit and finish can be patchy though. The DS3 had the worst paint job and panel fit I've ever seen on a new car but the C3 is much better although I have posted in the past pictures of how it appears to have been wired by school children (although still no faults).

The 308 is a good shout for the cash as a pre-reg car. Even mid range ones have all led lights, and a full length glass roof as well as it being one of the earliest cars to introduce Android Auto and CarPlay support as a no cost feature on all models. I also like the puretech engine as fitted to the C3 and don't think getting a 130bhp version will harm it at all.

But while all this is great when you're looking at it thinking "hey I can get a decent petrol estate with all the bits I want + a glass roof and massaging seats at a year old for about 12-14k" the ds end of the market uses a lot of the same gear and costs twice as much.

At which to me it's a tough sell, on a premium one as while the materials they use can be very nice indeed they struggle with a feeling of integrity. Stuff like door pulls, or the gear linkage or the stalks or the brakes it all works it just doesn't feel particularly satisfying to use. Then there's stuff like if you remove a panel to change a bulb it'll be all hanging wires...makes no real difference but it takes away the quality feel.

It's the opposite of my existing car which despite having an interior made out of the purest plastic with the exception of a leather wheel and gearknob feels like everything will work forever, pop a service panel off all the wires will be organised and wrapped.

Stuff like electric windows, after 8 years all 4 of my electric windows run at the same speed, so click the switch and all 4 will close in the same second. After 2 years on the citroen the drivers side window is faster than the passenger, which is faster than the rear ones. Makes literally no difference as to how you use the car but it doesn't feel "quality".

jrkitching said:

One of my all time favourites is the Matra 530 (Matra went on to design the Avantime).

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Oh now you bring back the memories! Here's the car which was largely responsible for my tinnitus and it's a Matra:



Just to be clear it's the blue car with the big white "periscope" air intake - V12 engine.

I have to admit though that a rotary Mazda sounds fantastic too:



Back in the very early 70's when I was working for Firestone in the European Touring Car championship we had a small team of Mazda saloons which only raced for the one season (if memory serves me) - boy were they noisy and fast:



I'm very impressed by the red Sunbeam Tiger at around the 3 mins in mark which pulls nicely away from him when the Corvettes and other muscle can't! Unfortunately it doesn't do the slowing down and twisty bits so well. Always fancied a Tiger though!

all the above are what "real" racers should sound like. Today's F1? not for me any more!

PS put your headphones on and crank the volume up nice and loud! To this day I can remember the deep down "tickle" the Matra gave me deep down in my ears as it shot past just feet away from me on the pit wall! Obviously that was my ears protesting but I didn't know any better!

Here's another offering which gives a bit of an idea what life in the pit lane was like in those days:



Far too many people, many of whom were not "savvy" as to the dangers and often got in your way. When you work the pit lane you develop a sort of sixth sense as to where the cars are and where they're coming at you from. You also know where to be when a car is coming at you so that you can take tyre temps or whatever you needed to do without hindering the team mechanics. In those days the "hangers on" would often get in the way and it was really very dangerous. Surprising really that more people were not seriously injured?

Matra ran Good Years I seem to remember, don't think Michelin (their obvious choice) were much into racing at that time. I never actually got to work on one. Adequate compensation came from the privilege of just sometimes helping with a works Ferrari. Ferrari were our "big name" team in endurance and F1. I should explain I was employed to service the European Touring Cars but for big sports car races, especially those of 12 and 24 hour duration, there were never enough permanent staff so we (being enclosed wheel arch people, unlike the prima donna Formula guys with their accessible open wheels - much more difficult to push a pyrocon (thermocouple) needle into the tyre on a vehicle with enclosing fenders - would be seconded to help, as long as we ourselves were not racing that weekend.

The 512M was one of the fastest and won many races. It had a most unique engine sound, much more gutteral, not like the Matra screamer although both were V12s:



The tread pattern on those rears look like our intermediate R125's but usually there would be big white Firestone lettering on the side. We were a smaller and less well funded set up compared to Good Year and it was always important to us to get our Firestone stickers on any of the cars running our tyres. I've had a few dodgy moments trying to secure stickers on cars as they were about to exit the pit lane!

Oh my, how I loved that job! Probably a good thing that Firestone shut down the European racing division before I became totally besotted. Most of the engineers in the department were either single or divorced! We were all passionately married to the job, you had to be, the hours you worked were insane, especially on the 24 hour endurance races, often 3 days on the trot sleeping in the back of the pits or one of the wagons. Absolutely loved it and wanted more!

Ps. just noticed they are Dunlops! Their inter pattern was very similar. If I'd noticed the mold flash down the centre of the tread and slight displacement of the blocks due to the 2 mold halves not being aligned I'd have picked up on that! our tyres were mostly hand cut so the patterns were symmetrical and even over the whole width of the tyre.