DaveMcT said:

Muppets driving in misty conditions with rear fog lights going full blast.

Yes, they are good in thick fog, but if you can see to drive at 70mph, you dont need the elfin things. Many are bright enough to be dangerous. When drivers are getting blinded, they will take overtaking risks just to protect their retinas.

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Yep, too many are too quick to turn them on, don't seem to know how short a distance 100M actually is. If you can see the car in front of behind, then a good chance they can see you. Should be using them like main beam and turning them off as soon as someone is behind and following.

They then drive around with the fronts on for the next 3 weeks also :bang:

Most Easterly Pandas said:

They then drive around with the fronts on for the next 3 weeks also :bang:

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One thing I've noticed recently is idiot proofing of canbus cars..

So you switch the lights on on the stalk and they will come for the trip you are doing then on switching the car off they are off and will not come back on unless you activate them again via the stalk. Also applies to wipers as well, very handy if certain people you know are on the habit of switching on the back wiper and then leaving it on forever...until the rubber parts with the blade having been dragged over a dry window for months and scratches the screen.

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Yep, too many are too quick to turn them on, don't seem to know how short a distance 100M actually is. If you can see the car in front of behind, then a good chance they can see you. Should be using them like main beam and turning them off as soon as someone is behind and following.

They then drive around with the fronts on for the next 3 weeks also :bang:

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Living in a fairly rural area and being 20+ miles from any major town to go anywhere requires quite a drive, and it is always very foggy round my way, So I'm getting quite used to having my retinas burned out by every idiot who turns on the rear fog light in a slight mist. Also putting on their front fog lights at any opportunity.

StevenRB45 said:

One thing I've noticed recently is idiot proofing of canbus cars..

So you switch the lights on on the stalk and they will come for the trip you are doing then on switching the car off they are off and will not come back on unless you activate them again via the stalk. Also applies to wipers as well, very handy if certain people you know are on the habit of switching on the back wiper and then leaving it on forever...until the rubber parts with the blade having been dragged over a dry window for months and scratches the screen.

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On The punto the foglights front and rear would have to be turned on every time you start the car, but can be left on as long as you drive, while there is an indicator on the dash, the buttons are annoyingly difficult to use while driving as there are 4 identical looking buttons all next to each other for front and rear foglights and to adjust the head lights up and down.

In the Golf its a much simpler and familiar set up pull the head light switch out once for front and twice for back. To do this however you have to turn off the auto headlights, making it obvious if you forget to turn them off again and automatic main beams won't work. so you get several reminders to turn off the fog lights again. However they could be left on between drives.

We had a right 'pea souper' of a fog last week

I was in my 2012 punto

Driving on dip beam.. quiet roads.. but 35mph max ( due to visibility)

After a while I tried main beam.. 'white sheet'..far too bright.. back to dip

I know.. I will use the front 'driving lights'..( used to be ace on my tipo and tempra ).. nope still too much

Aha.. turn off dip.. just the DRL's and driving lights.. STILL JUST GLARE..!!

I suspect the lights being mounted 1O0mm taller in this car didnt help..

I'm left with 1 thought though if my puntos 'adequate' headlights were right on the limit..

Were all the Audis .. JLR's ..etc all abandoned at the side of the road..?

you wouldnt see a thing in a modern disco.. the beam pattern is just 'straight ahead'

varesecrazy said:

We had a right 'pea souper' of a fog last week

I was in my 2012 punto

Driving on dip beam.. quiet roads.. but 35mph max ( due to visibility)

After a while I tried main beam.. 'white sheet'..far too bright.. back to dip

I know.. I will use the front 'driving lights'..( used to be ace on my tipo and tempra ).. nope still too much

Aha.. turn off dip.. just the DRL's and driving lights.. STILL JUST GLARE..!!

I suspect the lights being mounted 1O0mm taller in this car didnt help..

I'm left with 1 thought though if my puntos 'adequate' headlights were right on the limit..

Were all the Audis .. JLR's ..etc all abandoned at the side of the road..?

you wouldnt see a thing in a modern disco.. the beam pattern is just 'straight ahead'

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Often the load adjuster can be used to good effect in these conditions. Drop the dipped beams one step at a time until they no longer dazzle.

Dip was perfect for me..as I never have it high

At least my old.fashioned light units have a decent dip and cut.off

AndyRKett said:

the buttons are annoyingly difficult to use while driving as there are 4 identical looking buttons all next to each other for front and rear foglights and to adjust the head lights up and down.

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You tend to find on cheaper cars where the majority of cars won't have fog lights, they save themselves a tooling job by a button rather than manufacturing another stalk.

Swift was similar, rear fog was on the stalk as all of them had a rear fog...but front was one of 3 identical un-illumimated buttons buried down beside the steering wheel one of which was ironically for the instrument dimmer.

On the C3 it's saved by parts bin raiding and has the same stalk fitted to every PSA product since about 2000...

Grrrr don't get me started on fog lights. I must be the only person in the country to get pulled over and a fine for having them on when not needed...

StevenRB45 said:

One thing I've noticed recently is idiot proofing of canbus cars..

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Only on Fiat group cars. Most others still have manual switches for front Fogs that stay on until turned off - hence so many driving around for days with them on :bang:

If it's a Fiat / Alfa then you know the driver is using them as T*@t Lamps

Most Easterly Pandas said:

Only on Fiat group cars. Most others still have manual switches for front Fogs that stay on until turned off - hence so many driving around for days with them on :bang:

If it's a Fiat / Alfa then you know the driver is using them as T*@t Lamps

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PSA have done it for years as well...hell the idiot proofing on the wife's car goes as far as having DRLs on the back so if you're of the sort to leave "Auto" lights on during a brighter foggy day the rear of the car isn't un-lit even if the headlamps aren't on.

Mazda will also not let you leave the rear on, but you can leave the fronts..however the indicator on the dash is brighter than the foglights themselves.

first haircut for over a month but now my head is freezing and i cant find a hat

I'm making the most of my hair while it's still attached! I've gone back to the style of my youth - it's bordering on Bill Bailey but there's still enough to get away with it

Cars away at the garage being fixed...so hopefully as of tomorrow I shall a fan that doesn't sound like a wounded jungle animal.

It is however going to be the biggest bill this car has generated..the part alone 250 quid (you can't get pattern parts because no one does them for Mazdas in the UK due to relative rarity and they don't tend to break).

However logged into my work email on Monday...we're all getting a Christmas bonus that pretty much covers it on the 18th so having worked out cashflow for a few months to make sure I could cover everything up coming without raiding my savings...work are paying for it.

So result...just as well really...Christmas, just insured, bought and tidied up a Citroën, also the 10th anniversary of moving out so lots of annual bills...and also car insurance due in January...I dislike this time of year does at least mean I get to feel loaded during the spring/summer months.

So... my courtesy car this time was a Passat CC from 2012. It was an interesting experience, but it had non working optical parking system, steering fault, ABS fault, door wouldn't shut properly, fans in the cooling system all broke (couldn't demist), steering fault, traction fault and electric handbrake fault..... but it was an interesting experience to drive a bigger car. Though it did rattle, which I thought VW were apparently immune from ?!?

Better than the old rusty C-Max that wouldn't lock from last time when they had to swap it with the Fiesta, mind you!

Photo of it

SB1500 said:

Photo of it

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Looks just like the company car my brother had around the time it was new. And given the list of problems you describe and the way my brother drives cars (like driving his Mercedes GLC into deep water because he believed it to be as capable off road as a Land Rover) I’d not be surprised to find it was the same car.

An old car is only as good as the person who has looked after it.

My punto is older than that Passat but doesn’t seem to have anywhere near as many problems....the punto does rattle though

AndyRKett said:

Looks just like the company car my brother had around the time it was new. And given the list of problems you describe and the way my brother drives cars (like driving his Mercedes GLC into deep water because he believed it to be as capable off road as a Land Rover) I’d not be surprised to find it was the same car.

An old car is only as good as the person who has looked after it.

My punto is older than that Passat but doesn’t seem to have anywhere near as many problems....the punto does rattle though

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I had an ex-gf whose dad had one, only his had cooled seats and that was pretty cool! Company car too funnily enough. It fits the bill for one, and it's so sleek looking.


It was great to finally sort of see what these 'executive' like cars feel like, how a bigger car drives and to finally experience VW despite my controversial statements about them on here lol And it did feel pretty solid to drive, the power is really smooth and it felt like a petrol to rev etc. Had everything worked, such as the parking itself and whatnot, it'd probably be an experience on another level.


What fascinates me though, is that my DS has 120hp and is lighter / smaller. That thing has 140hp and is heavier / bigger. The power to weight is higher on the DS, however, the torque on that is something like 320nm, the DS has 285nm. So when the CC was in sport mode it really pulled giving the feeling of much more power on tap! Plus the bigger engine was still pulling and didn't feel like it was losing its breath at all in third gear approaching 80mph (you bet I ragged that thing!). Plus I suppose the bigger wheels, probably better gearbox and I'd imagine millions spent on tuning so that it appealed to people in that segment does make a difference you can feel.


It'll probably be a while before I ever have the need or the cash to easily go out and buy a car in that segment, but at least I've experienced one now! (maybe by 7 years PSA and Fiat will have made an Italian quirky styled large saloon based on the 508 / DS9 which will inevitably not sell, but at least I'll be able to buy one?! Lol)

I've always wondered how they handle.

Few years ago now I was coming back from a work thing in a hired corsa 1.4 over A686. As these things go, someone else is paying for fuel...you'll never see this car again so let's just say my level of commitment was a bit higher than if it had been my car.

Caught a Passat CC like it was parked in a twisty section, went to overtake on next straight but no all of a sudden despite the fact I'd eaten a gap of half a mile very quickly he decided to play. Long story short...it was a decent game of cat and mouse (he got away on the straights as even if I could have topped a ton on the roads we were on it was not wise).

Unfortunately he put a bit too much on the straight before a tightening bend started a terminal understeer towards some trees, crapped himself jammed the brakes on and was just saved from rotating backwards into the trees by the ESP.

Let him go after that...hadn't quite realised how close to the edge he was as even a Corsa was easily carrying more corner speed. Seems a bit like it's motorway barge 1st and foremost.

The CC in its time was considered to be a very nice car and everyone wanted the turbine wheels, which is maybe why that one is on aftermarket wheels.

Any car if mistreated can easily become a dog and these are now the sort of car that people buy cheaply and then drive without proper maintenance or servicing, also it could have been an ex rental, ex company car or worse still my brother went anywhere near it.

My golf is the 150hp (euro6) version of the 2litre diesel with 340nm weighing in at 1500Kg and The punto is a 120hp version of the 1.6 td found in many a van, supposedly with 320nm and weighing 1200kg. So they golf has 30hp more to overcome 300kg extra weight. On paper they are very similar in performance but in reality the golf has always felt much quicker, and the engine of the golf is much smoother and quieter. The specs for the 150hp Passat cc are almost identical to the golf. The punto while having the same hp as you DS, does have a small amount more torque but only just, and the punto probably has a little less weight.

All the cars are very similar but I believe that the smaller engines with highly strung turbos just don’t do as well a a bigger capacity engine with a better matched turbo.


If you’re interested you can compare stats here
Golf : - https://www.auto-data.net/en/volkswagen-golf-vi-cabriolet-facelift-2015-2.0-tdi-150hp-23353

Punto : - https://www.auto-data.net/en/fiat-punto-evo-199-1.6-16v-multijet-120hp-dpf-16758

DS3 :- https://www.auto-data.net/en/ds-3-1.6-bluehdi-120hp-start-stop-23719

Passat CC : - https://www.auto-data.net/en/volkswagen-cc-i-facelift-2012-2.0-tdi-150hp-23318

One thing that does stand out when driving both is that the golf is definitely and noticeably much better on fuel.

It's the "Area under the curve".

You can boost 1.0 or a 1.2 or 1.6 to match a 2.0 in peak numbers. But when it's not at peak numbers the smaller engine will have less. You can compensate with various strategies e.g. variable vane turbos but smaller engine flows less exhaust...less for a turbo to work with but the turbo has more to do. So slightly longer to get to peak torque and power and more time nowhere near it.

Seem to recall the peak torque on the DV6 was between 1795 and 1803 rpm on our 90bhp version and it was slow anywhere else leading to constant gear changing. 2.0 should give a broader spread and more response when it's outside of it's best operating window.