I'm not sure if it's by design or not but they certainly don't last as long. I think it's down to the value of the item - how much does it cost and how much is it worth.
Nobody's mentioned the renault 5 GTturbo yet
Or the Renault 19 16v....
Top gear: 80's hot hatches vs modern
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Top gear: 80's hot hatches vs modern
Or the Renault 19 16v....
Or the Renault 19 16v....
Can't believe no one has mentioned the Fiat Strada Abarth 130TC yet. Faster hot hatch in 1982 until the Mk2 Golf GTi made an appearance.
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Very true Collin I love the strada TC I must admit though when I was chucking spanners around in my village garage I very rarely came across one or uno turbos to be fair either (saw plenty of normal ones though - yay )
The golf, maestros and the fords were the most common at that place I'ld say and I drove loads of them
I must admit though when I was chucking spanners around in my village garage I very rarely came across one or uno turbos to be fair either (saw plenty of normal ones though - yay ) The golf, maestros and the fords were the most common at that place I'ld say and I drove loads of them
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Oh-kay. The Astra GTE (mkII 8V I owned) is a million times better than the Astra VXR I tested.
The MG Maestro is a bit of an issue. I raced a MkI 1600 twin carb' in the MG Trophy Cup. Brilliant but the MG Midgets were lighter and quicker but on the straights I was faster.
My green 2.0 EFi I had on the road was stolen. My back 2.0 EFi was great until I was hit side on by of all things an XR2 that had just lost a wishbone.
Rover 216Gti was terrible.
Astra MkIII GSi was idiotic when it worked, sadly that wasn't often.
MkIII Escort XR3i with a Piper 286 cam' and twin Weber 40's. That engine outlasted three cars and ended up in my Escort van.
Cavalier SRi 130. I had two of these. One the rear arches collapsed and I drove home from Kettering on the bump stops. The other someone took the oil filler cap and the big end went. The engine out of the rust pile was donated and I sold that one to a chap who had a Calibra bodykit. Last I saw it was painted BMW Dakar Yellow and was featured in Fast Car or Max Power magazine.
My MkI XR2 was superb, MkII XR2's were fine mechanically provided the CVH was looked after. "Looked after" and "Hot hatch"? I know. I had three one with a good engine and the other two were bodges and filler by the time they graced my driveway.
I owned an MkIII Si and RS1800. The Si was a cheap insurance version of the XR2i and dare I say it a little more refined. I swapped it for the RS1800 and immediately regretted it. I was told it was a Zetec when it was a square block with an XR3i 105 head. I fitted 130 cam's and a Zetec throttle body and it was much better.
Uno Turbo, Turbo II and Lancia Delta Hf have been pretty well covered on the forum already.
Something I didn't get about the Top Gear feature is why they used post millennium Police cars. A Vauxhall Senator or Sapphire Cosy would have made them look as silly as they were.
The MG Maestro is a bit of an issue. I raced a MkI 1600 twin carb' in the MG Trophy Cup. Brilliant but the MG Midgets were lighter and quicker but on the straights I was faster.
My green 2.0 EFi I had on the road was stolen. My back 2.0 EFi was great until I was hit side on by of all things an XR2 that had just lost a wishbone.
Rover 216Gti was terrible.
Astra MkIII GSi was idiotic when it worked, sadly that wasn't often.
MkIII Escort XR3i with a Piper 286 cam' and twin Weber 40's. That engine outlasted three cars and ended up in my Escort van.
Cavalier SRi 130. I had two of these. One the rear arches collapsed and I drove home from Kettering on the bump stops. The other someone took the oil filler cap and the big end went. The engine out of the rust pile was donated and I sold that one to a chap who had a Calibra bodykit. Last I saw it was painted BMW Dakar Yellow and was featured in Fast Car or Max Power magazine.
My MkI XR2 was superb, MkII XR2's were fine mechanically provided the CVH was looked after. "Looked after" and "Hot hatch"? I know. I had three one with a good engine and the other two were bodges and filler by the time they graced my driveway.
I owned an MkIII Si and RS1800. The Si was a cheap insurance version of the XR2i and dare I say it a little more refined. I swapped it for the RS1800 and immediately regretted it. I was told it was a Zetec when it was a square block with an XR3i 105 head. I fitted 130 cam's and a Zetec throttle body and it was much better.
Uno Turbo, Turbo II and Lancia Delta Hf have been pretty well covered on the forum already.
Something I didn't get about the Top Gear feature is why they used post millennium Police cars. A Vauxhall Senator or Sapphire Cosy would have made them look as silly as they were.
Any of the Strada TC's were a rare sight even when they were current and still no one has mentioned the undisputed king of them all and one of my dream cars..... the HF Turbo Integrale...:worship: or maybe they were always a bit too exotic for the mainstream, I do remember seeing some very cheap 2wd HF's for sale back in the 90's though.
You have to remember that the cars we are discussing are now very rare due to being desirable to a certain sort of person and easy to steal certainly but mainly due to not requiring any sort of built in obsolescence as after 10-15 years of use in our climate the floor pan and lower half of the structure had oxidised.
A modern car is more likely to suffer a catastrophic electrical failure in an expensive part which is annoying at the time as chances are it'll look immaculate and be mechanically fit otherwise but most seem to get to around 10 to 15 years.
Although as modern car get more and more complex more and more failure points are introduced.
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a friend had one
rotten as a pear at 5 years old
still went like stink though
faster than a mates v8 capri
StripeyMiata
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There is an interesting thing going on in the MX5 world.
Loads of MK2 MX5's being written off at the moment at MOT, these cars are only about 10 to 15 years old.
The MK1 and the MK2 cars are pretty much identical (I have a MK1). One of the differences is with the box section on either side of the car. It's a pretty major structural part of the car, mine is a single skinned box section, there is a double skinned box section for the MK2's to meet new EU crash regulations at that time.
Over time water keeps getting trapped between the two skins and box section rots away but you can't see it until MOT. And the cars will look spotless from the outside. And as it's a major structural part of the car it's usually written off as cost of repairs exceed the value of the car.
Why this I think is relevant is Mazda's response to the angry owners. They said that modern cars have a lifespan of only 10 years so it's not a design fault so no recall.
To which the owners are quite rightly coming back with is the older MK1's aren't doing this so it must be a design fault.
Last I heard there is a class action case starting in America so we just have to wait and see.
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OP
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Also price plays its part. If a clutch In a 14 year old MR2 needs replacing and it's gonna cost a lot then the owner is faced with the question "is it worth spending all this money on a car that's only worth say £1500?"
Or if it needs some work for the MOT like a new cat, brakes and a and a couple of tyres - general stuff but adds up to a big bill. It wouldn't take much to push the bill up close to the value of the car and the owner will just scrap it. Personally I'ld get it fixed as it's got to be cheaper than buying a new car
Or if it needs some work for the MOT like a new cat, brakes and a and a couple of tyres - general stuff but adds up to a big bill. It wouldn't take much to push the bill up close to the value of the car and the owner will just scrap it. Personally I'ld get it fixed as it's got to be cheaper than buying a new car
I must admit since I've been driving my Supersport this past 8 months I don't seem to get the same 'James May Fizz' as I did with the Cinquecento or even my old Mk2 Punto 1.2 8v.
Something about new cars makes them feel too boring. The height of the drivers seat is also way to high. Especially for a 'Sporty' car.
Something about new cars makes them feel too boring. The height of the drivers seat is also way to high. Especially for a 'Sporty' car.
Put a space save on the back, fill your boot with a few 3litre bottles of water 3/4s full, make sure they've got the room to slid side to side and go for a drive in the wet.... that'll make things more interesting
Put a space save on the back, fill your boot with a few 3litre bottles of water 3/4s full, make sure they've got the room to slid side to side and go for a drive in the wet.... that'll make things more interesting
If only I had a space saver...
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I think the best thing that can be said of more modern sporty hatchbacks is that by and large they've become more competent. Grip levels have gone up, quality levels have gone up, power has gone up. Weight has also gone up.
Which perhaps belies the whole ethos of the hot hatch. The originals were quite raw and had to be driven rather than directed. If you go back a bit further still:
Sunbeam Lotus................2.2 litre.....150bhp.....0-60 7.9 sec (approx) 1320 kg.
Vauxhall HS 2300.............2.3 litre.....135bhp......0-60 8.5 sec (approx)1040 kg.
FIAT Strada/Ritmo 105TC..1.6 litre.....105bhp......0-60 9.0 sec (approx)1305 kg.
FIAT Strada/Ritmo 130TC..2.0 litre.....130bhp......0-60 7.6 sec (approx)1350 kg.
FIAT 131 Racing..............2.0 litre.....115bhp......0-60 9.6 sec (approx)1350 kg.
By the time the Top Gear's XR2 came out it had about the same 100-ish bhp as the earlier cars but they weighed around a ton and a half.
Light weight and reasonable levels of power, I believe, made for better hot hatches than more weight with more power to compensate.
Which perhaps belies the whole ethos of the hot hatch. The originals were quite raw and had to be driven rather than directed. If you go back a bit further still:
Sunbeam Lotus................2.2 litre.....150bhp.....0-60 7.9 sec (approx) 1320 kg.
Vauxhall HS 2300.............2.3 litre.....135bhp......0-60 8.5 sec (approx)1040 kg.
FIAT Strada/Ritmo 105TC..1.6 litre.....105bhp......0-60 9.0 sec (approx)1305 kg.
FIAT Strada/Ritmo 130TC..2.0 litre.....130bhp......0-60 7.6 sec (approx)1350 kg.
FIAT 131 Racing..............2.0 litre.....115bhp......0-60 9.6 sec (approx)1350 kg.
By the time the Top Gear's XR2 came out it had about the same 100-ish bhp as the earlier cars but they weighed around a ton and a half.
Light weight and reasonable levels of power, I believe, made for better hot hatches than more weight with more power to compensate.
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I'ld say your spot on with that statement The Beard they had a more "stripped out" feel to them that made the driving experience a lot enjoyable. Sure the new ones are quicker, quiter and a lot more refined but I do wonder if you hired a track for the day and had three cars on test - a 2014 golf GTI, a 1988 RS Turbo or a 1988 1.6 pug GTI I wonder which everyone would choose first?
Mazda's have been suffering with rust since the early nineties, my brother in law bought a very tidy looking mazda 6 diesel and the thing was rotten as a pear in the sills and floor.
Having said that I was talking to my brother last night and we'd both like to find an old mazda 323 4x4 turbo...that was a pretty useful b-road weapon in its day.
Having said that I was talking to my brother last night and we'd both like to find an old mazda 323 4x4 turbo...that was a pretty useful b-road weapon in its day.
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I wonder which of those cars people would say they enjoyed driving the most at the end of the session. (I have a feeling I already know
)
I wonder which of those cars people would say they enjoyed driving the most at the end of the session. (I have a feeling I already know
Sorry to say I'd have the Golf, had a go in one and it really is very good.
I wouldn't, far too many 'gizmos' to provide a seat of the pants ride for my liking. I had a licence during the birth of the 'hot hatch' and it was all about the drive. Which is why so many were stuffed by people who couldn't (drive that is). A good balance and feedback and enough power for the weight of the car. Today's cars a mightily more powerful and have so many drivers aids that the driving experience is diminished IMHO. That is not to say I wouldn't have one as a daily driver but for the track..............old skool baby :thumbup:
I think you've hit the nail on the head...too much power..
