pooroldcodger said:

Sorry, I give up. You have worn me down with your ability to read one thing and then say it means something else.

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from the beginning you where objective and fair but when you started spouting stuff like this

pooroldcodger said:

it can't be a coincidence that if not all, the majority of the wars and campaigns being fought are either between different strands of muslims, or muslims fighting against other countries or religions. Is that not a fact or am I wrong?

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pooroldcodger said:

no it was Al Queda's radical muslims. That is what lead to the wars in Afghanistan. The first war in Iraq was due to Iraq invading Kuwait (one Muslim country on another Which was a war over money not religion ).Which other religious group has a stated aim to take over other religions right now?

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pooroldcodger said:

it is hardly a tenuous link to make between Al Quaeda and muslims is it? At no point have I said that all muslims are terrorists, but it does seem to be true at this point that the majority of terrorism is in the name of Islam.

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maybe it is time to take a step back and think about what point you are trying to make.

I will concede however its was someone else spouting EDL BS and crying about the burning of poppies forgetting that the morons doing this are dishonouring the thousands of muslims who died fighting for the british in the wars they commemorate, so I apologise it seems initially we were of the same view that the terrorist element needs to dealt with and that law abiding peaceful muslims are not an issue. more recently your views seem to be of a complete anti islamic stance, with the attitude of "I can't be racist some of my closest friends are muslim"

The thing that makes these attackers so sad and pathetic is they the soldier they murdered was not in the business of killing muslims he was serving in these countries to help muslims to rebuild society law and order so that honest muslims can live free of oppression from maniacs hell bent on mass genocide.
because of this they don't even deserve us remembering their names or faces and condemn them to exile from those they might seek shelter by befriending and working with the communities that have the ability to prevent these young men turning to such idiotic ideals.

Lee Rigby died fighting for his country, it doesn't matter in which country he died, it doesn't matter if his enemy was one or one hundred and it doesn't matter if it was by gun bomb or blade, he was a solider and should be honoured as one.

I wonder if the Moderators might consider the complete removal of this thread and replacing it with a memorial to Lee Rigby (and anyone else lost in war) where people can leave their sentiments free from all this religious and political BS

The trouble is, religion, economics and politics are central to all of this.

AndyRKett said:

I wonder if the Moderators might consider the complete removal of this thread and replacing it with a memorial to Lee Rigby (and anyone else lost in war) where people can leave their sentiments free from all this religious and political BS

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No, they should leave it up for a while so that we can all read and enjoy your bizarre circular arguments, libelous comments and grudging retractions.
At least you didn't call me a bigotted taxi driver. For that I am grateful.

pooroldcodger said:

No, they should leave it up for a while so that we can all read and enjoy your bizarre circular arguments, libelous comments and grudging retractions.
At least you didn't call me a bigotted taxi driver. For that I am grateful.

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i'll refer you to your sweeping generalisations of the wider muslim world on that one

please quote my "bizarre circular arguments, libelous comments and grudging retractions" as for the last one... I was trying to end the arguments and suggest all parties take a step back and let things go, the common cause and interest we all have is fighting extremism irrelevant of religion, politics or economics. (will thank Ulpian on the economics front)

you clearly can't let it go though can you?

the 3 quotes from your keyboard above are exactly the sort of thing that morons like the EDL like to preach that whole "we're not saying all muslims are bad but...." attitude, as the old saying goes if you're not part of the solution then that must mean....

Take your self to the nearest Mosque and say anyone of your comments below and see how well received your ideas are, regardless of what you intentions may have been every one of them is indefensible and insult to every Muslim

pooroldcodger said:

it can't be a coincidence that if not all, the majority of the wars and campaigns being fought are either between different strands of muslims, or muslims fighting against other countries or religions. Is that not a fact or am I wrong?

Click to expand...

pooroldcodger said:

no it was Al Queda's radical muslims. That is what lead to the wars in Afghanistan. The first war in Iraq was due to Iraq invading Kuwait (one Muslim country on another ).Which other religious group has a stated aim to take over other religions right now?

Click to expand...

pooroldcodger said:

it is hardly a tenuous link to make between Al Quaeda and muslims is it? At no point have I said that all muslims are terrorists, but it does seem to be true at this point that the majority of terrorism is in the name of Islam.

Click to expand...

the 3 quotes from your keyboard above are exactly the sort of thing that morons like the EDL like to preach that whole "we're not saying all muslims are bad but...." attitude, as the old saying goes if you're not part of the solution then that must mean....

Take your self to the nearest Mosque and say anyone of your comments below and see how well received your ideas are, regardless of what you intentions may have been every one of them is indefensible and insult to every Muslim[/QUOTE]

And what would they do? Behead me?

scout500 said:

Gods don't kill people, people who talk to invisible 'friends' kill people

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edited for accuracy


Never ceases to amaze me - sit there talking to yourself - they lock you away in a padded cell.
Say "amen" at the end of the conversation & you're somehow promoted from fruitcake to honest, trustworthy person

sludgeguts said:

edited for accuracy


Never ceases to amaze me - sit there talking to yourself - they lock you away in a padded cell.
Say "amen" at the end of the conversation & you're somehow promoted from fruitcake to honest, trustworthy person

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Surely if were going for accuracy then it should read:

invisible 'friends' don't kill people, people who talk and listen to invisible 'friends' kill people.

:nerner:

Not quite the same impact but accurate

Police Forces and military forces train their armed staff to shoot for the largest part of the body mass which is the torso. One of the problems with ballistics is the uncertainty of a hit. "Relatively" low velocity rounds such as .38 and to a lesser extent 9mm Para are quite easily deflected, which can sometimes increase the effectiveness of the shot.....and sometimes decrease it.

About 25 years ago there was a famous case in the US where a policeman's wife who was suffering from depression walked into their bedroom where her husband was lying on his back, stepped right up to him, and with the muzzle of his .38 Snub Nosed Detective Special pressed against his chest, pulled the trigger twice. He is reported to have said: "Aw honey, why'd you do that?" took the weapon off her and walked downstairs to phone for an ambulance which he walked into unaided. He later made a full recovery.

He was lucky that although he was shot twice in the chest, because of the angle she was holding the gun at, the bone deflected both rounds away from his vital organs, with one nicking a lung and the other going right through missing all his innards.

I say this because a cop has no idea whether or not the target is on PCP or some other stimulant or whether he has an explosive belt under his coat. If he has explosives then a dying effort could be enough to detonate it. The three IRA members who were shot on Gibraltar were all hit multiple times in case they managed to operate a command wire. The same was true of Jean Charles de Menezez. He was shot so often in order to prevent him detonating a device they believed he had.

A dilemma a police marksman has is:If I put 4 rounds in his chest and he dies, but turns out to be unarmed I've possibly killed an innocent man. If on the other hand he shoots the man in the legs then if a bomb is exploded, PC 99 goes down as the man who could have, but didn't save other people's lives. Possibly including his own.

It's quite possible then that an assessment was made that as they were reported as having used bladed weapons, they were less of a risk so the two Bobbies went for the lower body.

It will all be supposition until we get the inquest or a public enquiry

AndyRKett said:

I wonder if the Moderators might consider the complete removal of this thread and replacing it with a memorial to Lee Rigby (and anyone else lost in war) where people can leave their sentiments free from all this religious and political BS

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Personally I'm happy with the lively debate and exchange of views this thread has provoked. It's arguable that it has deviated from the original theme somewhat, but that's the nature of the beast.

If you want to PM one of the Mods and ask their opinion then it may be the right thing to start again with two threads, one showing respect for Drummer Rigby who only comes from about 7 miles from me, and the other for debate about terrorism, freedom of speech/thought/religious expression and so on. Having said that, there's nothing to stop either, or both, crossing back over so we'll end up back where we are now.

There's an argument to be made that there are two possible reactions to last week's events. One is that bellends go out and burn down mosques and beat up Asians, while "the other side" retaliate. The second reaction is what you're seeing here, members of a very loose society who are putting different points of view and hopefully learning something from others, which is a two way street of course.