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Old 21-12-2012   #16
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

its not really up to the insurance company what they say on the phone really, if its on the agreement that insurance is void if information is not disclosed then in the eyes of the law you are not insured.
guy on the phone may say you are still covered but would he still be saying it if they wanted to wriggle out of paying a claim for hundreds of thousands
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Old 21-12-2012   #17
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

I wonder how many of the vehicles taken away had illegal hid's fitted. Ie with no self levellers and washers (most aftermarket ones). That's an easy score for the cops.
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Old 21-12-2012   #18
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by dave View Post
its not really up to the insurance company what they say on the phone really, if its on the agreement that insurance is void if information is not disclosed then in the eyes of the law you are not insured.
guy on the phone may say you are still covered but would he still be saying it if they wanted to wriggle out of paying a claim for hundreds of thousands
But this is what I'm saying, A) none disclosure doesn't automatically mean a policy is invalid, for example if its a modification which doesn't load the policy premium then it is unlikely that a policy would be invalid, B) if the policy holder says they advised they had informed the company this would need to be looked into and calls listened to before a company could give a catagories yes the policy is valid or no it's invalid answer.
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Old 21-12-2012   #19
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
An insurance company wouldn't normally decide that over the phone though as they'd have to much to loose if they've messed up on that instant decision. Making a policy invalid isn't a choice made by one person or dept normally.
Not strictly true, I have had a policy voided instantly on more than one ocassaion for non disclosed convictions/modifications. Some underwriters who point blank refuse to insure certain circumstances will void cover there and then. So then un-insured which means they will get vehicle removed. Even in some circumstances I can even make that decision, I have an amount of delegated authority from our panel of underwriters (which all the companies use the same underwriter).

Yeah, headunits arent modifications to a majority of insurers but usually have limit, although some offer unlimited amount of cover.

But also, yes VOSA are stopping and making checks, they inspect the whole vehicle and will make sure it is all legal, its within their power and I think its a good thing. Good to keep illegal vehicles off the road.
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Old 21-12-2012   #20
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

There's nothing wrong ingetting dangerous cars off the road, but if somebody has made a cosmetic mod to a car (alloys for example), then as long as they are the right size etc. that would not make the car dangerous, but yet if they have not been declared the car could be towed away?
Surely that is turning what is a commercial risk assessment matter into a legal matter?
Yes the insurance companies may well want a higher premium as the car and its shiny wheels may get stolen, but surely it is over stepping the mark to tow it away?
I think the insurance business has got out of control in this country. It's a legalised racket.
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Old 22-12-2012   #21
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

ive declared every single one of them...........as i havent done any yet but after i wrote my 1st ever car off not thinking they would pay out due to the mods luckily they did but after that ive always declared to save me the worry papped my pants for about a month i was young and dumb then
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Old 22-12-2012   #22
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by pooroldcodger View Post
Yes the insurance companies may well want a higher premium as the car and its shiny wheels may get stolen, but surely it is over stepping the mark to tow it away?
So I suppose someone stealing £200 is less a criminal than someone who takes £1,000,000.

The rules are in black and white and you sign up to abide by the rules when you take out your insurance (that's the small print no one reads). If you break the rules by changing your car without informing the insurance company then why should they cover you? You lie (sometimes by omission) to them and then expect them to honour an agreement you've invalidated, doesn't sound very fair to me.

The best policy, as I said above, is to declare everything however small and insignificant. Let them tell you it doesn't need to be declared, all it would have cost you was 5 mins and a phone call, but at least you'll be covered.
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Old 22-12-2012   #23
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
But an insurance company wouldn't normally decide that over the phone though as they'd have to much to loose if they've messed up on that instant decision. Making a policy invalid isn't a choice made by one person or dept normally.

The theory is sound, but its very unliky to happen.
some insurers wont have to decide that over the phone as their small print states its invalid by not declaring them, therefore automatically uninsured.
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Old 22-12-2012   #24
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by Big Black Stilo View Post
some insurers wont have to decide that over the phone as their small print states its invalid by not declaring them, therefore automatically uninsured.
So what about the other situation I've advised where they've (insurance company) made the mistake and the person who setup the policy on the phone forgot to add a mod, meaning the insurance company have to look into the policy quote / inception call? It does happen.

Its not impossible for a policy to be void there and then over the phone, but not nearly as common as make out. Then again the staff at some of these places seem to always take the 'muck the customer about and worry about it later' approach, so then it could be down to luck of the draw and if you're with a decent insurance company, or a crappy budget one.
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Old 22-12-2012   #25
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
So what about the other situation I've advised where they've (insurance company) made the mistake and the person who setup the policy on the phone forgot to add a mod, meaning the insurance company have to look into the policy quote / inception call? It does happen.

Its not impossible for a policy to be void there and then over the phone, but not nearly as common as make out. Then again the staff at some of these places seem to always take the 'muck the customer about and worry about it later' approach, so then it could be down to luck of the draw and if you're with a decent insurance company, or a crappy budget one.
This is how it works for car mods, they add it to the computer system, the computer will tell you if it is acceptable or not. If its not acceptable and you have it on the vehicle you have to cancel it there and then (or find another underwriter who will accept if possible if they use a panel of underwriters, but that means a new 12 month policy). Easy. Thing is when people get told this they lie and say its not actually on yet they just wanted a quote for it. Both these happen on a day to day basis, thing is you have to work in the right department to see it.

Agree about the quality of staff is an issue when it comes to the customer service side of it, what they SHOULD say and what they DO say can be two totally different things, which only ends badly in every situation, honest is the best policy, some people just done get that.
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Old 22-12-2012   #26
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Basic Law of Contract – if the insured misrepresents their car to the insurer when negotiating the contract, then you can hardly expect the insurer to pay-out when the insured makes a claim. No contract > no insurance > offence. But it’s not that simple.

The insurer may waive voiding the contract over a trivial matter – as the insured would most likely put-it to the ombudsman to have insurance up-held. The insurer could offer to re-negotiate terms – advise the uninsured to amend the misrepresentations.

The insured can argue a case for the contract to hold – but they’d be little point going that route if they’ve made several misrepresenations. They may get away by arguing they made a genuine mistake if it was a one-off – but clearly they’re in deep-doo-doo driving round in Punto Prestigio-cum-Lancia-Integrale 200HP misrepresented as Punto Active 60HP.

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Old 22-12-2012   #27
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by scout500 View Post
So I suppose someone stealing £200 is less a criminal than someone who takes £1,000,000.

The rules are in black and white and you sign up to abide by the rules when you take out your insurance (that's the small print no one reads). If you break the rules by changing your car without informing the insurance company then why should they cover you? You lie (sometimes by omission) to them and then expect them to honour an agreement you've invalidated, doesn't sound very fair to me.

The best policy, as I said above, is to declare everything however small and insignificant. Let them tell you it doesn't need to be declared, all it would have cost you was 5 mins and a phone call, but at least you'll be covered.
I agree - best to declare the modifications, no question.

No, the person that steals £200 is no less of a criminal than the person that steals a million, but that is not the issue here is it? Yes it is the same in that you have broken the contract, but if you commit murder, or ride your bike without lights (at night obviously!) you have also committed an offence, but would you expect the punishment to be the same? As in, alloy wheels / or 200BHP power hike, both borken the contract, but are they both worthy of the car being towed away? That's my point.
Best let the computer decide perhaps?
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Old 22-12-2012   #28
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by pooroldcodger View Post
I agree - best to declare the modifications, no question.

No, the person that steals £200 is no less of a criminal than the person that steals a million, but that is not the issue here is it? Yes it is the same in that you have broken the contract, but if you commit murder, or ride your bike without lights (at night obviously!) you have also committed an offence, but would you expect the punishment to be the same? As in, alloy wheels / or 200BHP power hike, both borken the contract, but are they both worthy of the car being towed away? That's my point.
Best let the computer decide perhaps?
The problem with that argument is that in the case of the insurance the 'crime' is the same. Whether you add different wheels or engine. It's not what you have done that invalidated the insurance its what you haven't done (not told them you've done it) that is the issue.
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Old 23-12-2012   #29
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Cracks me up that some simply refuse to look at this from the insurer's point of view.
You want them to insure your 'stock' car worth £x
The car is stolen & suddenly you want compo for £x PLUS £xx for the stereo, £xx for the alloys etc etc.
And all this "it's not fair that they are towing away" - having the major inconvenience (and possibly embarrassment) of waving your beloved car off on the back of a tow truck whilst you & your mates stand there in the freezing rain MIGHT be the kick up the backside that makes you do it all legal and above board next time.
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Old 23-12-2012   #30
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Re: Have you declared your mods?

Quote Originally Posted by Most Easterly Pandas View Post
z
Its not impossible for a policy to be void there and then over the phone, but not nearly as common as make out.
i dont get why you keep saying phone? they didnt phone no one that check it on their computer and take the car away, they phone no one.
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