http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...money-petrol-models-economical-makes-car.html
Discuss.
(Sorry if been posted befores)
Discuss.
(Sorry if been posted befores)
'Great Diesel Myth'
- Thread starter Didge3
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Currently reading:
'Great Diesel Myth'
second hand diesels will save you money, slowly.
new ones, your still paying a premium on
new ones, your still paying a premium on
I remember doing the maths a couple years ago in the 500 section and using book figures it took over 100,000 miles for the diesel to break even.
There is no myth about diesel ownship, only that the majority of owners are blinded by marketing hype and think they need a diesel to potter to the shops a few times a week.
Everyone knows that diesels are more economical. 10l of diesel will get the average diesel car further than 10l of petrol in the average petrol car. There is no myth about it. It's fact. Simple.
What the vast majority of owners don't take into account is the premium cost buying the car in the first place, the premium cost of the fuel itself and then the premium cost of replacing parts one diesel cars when they go wrong.
The fact is, if you do 20k+ motorway miles a year then a diesel will do you proud. If you do sub 10k pottering around town a year then a petrol will be far more cost effective in the long run and potentially in the short run too.
Everyone knows that diesels are more economical. 10l of diesel will get the average diesel car further than 10l of petrol in the average petrol car. There is no myth about it. It's fact. Simple.
What the vast majority of owners don't take into account is the premium cost buying the car in the first place, the premium cost of the fuel itself and then the premium cost of replacing parts one diesel cars when they go wrong.
The fact is, if you do 20k+ motorway miles a year then a diesel will do you proud. If you do sub 10k pottering around town a year then a petrol will be far more cost effective in the long run and potentially in the short run too.
Petrol £1.03 lolStraighten facts time.
1.2 is not the same engine found in the Panda or GP completely different head.
Salesman doesn't know what Fiat are doing with the prices in a few months.
1.3 is faster but the difference is minimal. Although the diesel will feel much faster just because of the way they deliver their power.
Fuel economy. Using the cheapest fuel stations around my area.
petrol £1.03 Diesel £1.10
Price difference between cars £1400
Fuel economy on the combined stat. 1.2 55.4MPG 1.3 67.3MPG
Now 4.55 litres in a gallon. so with a 7P per litre difference in the price of the more economical fuel. We need to save £1400 pounds in fuel for the premium of the diesel to break even.
Excuse my maths here.
10,000 miles will use 821.7 litres of fuel in the petrol costing £846.35
10,000 miles will use 676.13 litres of fuel in the diesel costing £743.74
so for every 10,000 miles you claw back £102.61
so the £1400 pounds difference is divided up by the 10,000 mile difference to give the amount of 10,000 chunks you would need to complete before you break even. which is 13.64 so this times 10,000 will give you the mileage you need to do to break even.
136,438 miles then after that diesel is cheaper.
Feel free to correct my maths I know I'm rubbish at it.
Unless a Hyaundi where they were the same price for a long while.
You're missing the point. Yeah sure, 10l of diesel will get your further than 10l of petrol. Of course it will! BUT that diesel car costs more to buy, more to service and the fuel costs you more.
So it's more a case of how long you're going to keep a car rather than how many miles you're going to do a year as to whether you end up saving money or losing money.
OP
OP
This is what I thought after reading it,
1. They don't mention second hand cars, buying a second hand diesel could reap the benefits earlier.
2. Motorway driving is a huge part, on long motorway journeys a diesel will make up the premium cost of buying it in the first place and assuming you intend to keep the car around 5 or so years with lots of motorway journeys then it can work out cheaper.
3. Marketing of diesels is all wrong, well not for the traders but for the consumer, marketing a diesel to someone who doesn't do a lot of motorway driving or someone who only intends to keep the car 3 years won't make any savings in most cases.
I think the article does speak the truth but doesn't have the right angle on the topic, its more focused to petrol being more economical in the long run which isn't true, the premiums for diesel engines are only worth paying if you know your life style is going to benefit from the fuel savings of a diesel.
1. They don't mention second hand cars, buying a second hand diesel could reap the benefits earlier.
2. Motorway driving is a huge part, on long motorway journeys a diesel will make up the premium cost of buying it in the first place and assuming you intend to keep the car around 5 or so years with lots of motorway journeys then it can work out cheaper.
3. Marketing of diesels is all wrong, well not for the traders but for the consumer, marketing a diesel to someone who doesn't do a lot of motorway driving or someone who only intends to keep the car 3 years won't make any savings in most cases.
I think the article does speak the truth but doesn't have the right angle on the topic, its more focused to petrol being more economical in the long run which isn't true, the premiums for diesel engines are only worth paying if you know your life style is going to benefit from the fuel savings of a diesel.
I think the point is why would you buy a diesel if it's going to cost you more over the x amount of years you're going to own the car and then it will only save money for the person you sell it on to.
Why does a diesel cost more to service?
My 2004 mk2b punto is a 1.3 multijet diesel (1249cc) the same 2004 mk2b 1.2 petrol is also 1249cc. My diesel needs an oil and filter change air filter and maybe a new fuel filter all costing about £50 is you buy some nice posh fully synthetic oil. It has a timing chain and once in a blue moon requires a new glow plug (which are surprisingly cheap)
A petrol needs the same oil and filter change. Air filter spark plugs ht leads, cambelt every 70k miles. Diesels tend to plod on for ever with out a service but patrols get tetchy if left more than 12-15k miles.
I'm not sure you can categorically say that all Diesel engines cost more to service than there petrol counter parts.
Another big bonus is that diesels don't put out so much CO2 so generally much cheaper to tax (£30 for my punto compared to £150 for the petrol version) and much higher mpg figures 60+mpg compared to 40+mpg in a petrol
I probably paid £1000 more for the diesel option at the time but I know I've saved at least £600 in road tax alone. And done 45k miles and not had to pay out another £150 for a cam belt change.
You need to take each car on its merits and not on just petrol versus diesel, when I bought mine I calculated it would cost something like 8p a mile to run including tax servicing, wear and tear and of course depreciation. (So although it might cost more to buy you get more for it when you sell it too) I thing the petrol worked out at 16p a mile though that's 5 years ago now, things will of course have changed with a brand new car today and you have to weigh up the costs
My 2004 mk2b punto is a 1.3 multijet diesel (1249cc) the same 2004 mk2b 1.2 petrol is also 1249cc. My diesel needs an oil and filter change air filter and maybe a new fuel filter all costing about £50 is you buy some nice posh fully synthetic oil. It has a timing chain and once in a blue moon requires a new glow plug (which are surprisingly cheap)
A petrol needs the same oil and filter change. Air filter spark plugs ht leads, cambelt every 70k miles. Diesels tend to plod on for ever with out a service but patrols get tetchy if left more than 12-15k miles.
I'm not sure you can categorically say that all Diesel engines cost more to service than there petrol counter parts.
Another big bonus is that diesels don't put out so much CO2 so generally much cheaper to tax (£30 for my punto compared to £150 for the petrol version) and much higher mpg figures 60+mpg compared to 40+mpg in a petrol
I probably paid £1000 more for the diesel option at the time but I know I've saved at least £600 in road tax alone. And done 45k miles and not had to pay out another £150 for a cam belt change.
You need to take each car on its merits and not on just petrol versus diesel, when I bought mine I calculated it would cost something like 8p a mile to run including tax servicing, wear and tear and of course depreciation. (So although it might cost more to buy you get more for it when you sell it too
) I thing the petrol worked out at 16p a mile though that's 5 years ago now, things will of course have changed with a brand new car today and you have to weigh up the costs
Comparing mine with the tjet 150 on fuelly using the mileage I have done:
TJet:
Pence per mile: 20p
Total Cost: £4504
MJet:
Pence per mile: 12.3p
Total Cost: £2841.04
So the difference being £1662.96, even if you include two services (one major and one Minor) and a full set of tyres it still works out cheaper... (this would more than likely have needed to be done on the petrol anyway)
At the time when i bought the car the Tjet was about £500 - £1000 cheaper.
So for me the diesel works out the better choice.
TJet:
Pence per mile: 20p
Total Cost: £4504
MJet:
Pence per mile: 12.3p
Total Cost: £2841.04
So the difference being £1662.96, even if you include two services (one major and one Minor) and a full set of tyres it still works out cheaper... (this would more than likely have needed to be done on the petrol anyway)
At the time when i bought the car the Tjet was about £500 - £1000 cheaper.
So for me the diesel works out the better choice.
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I just like the fact that my GP sporting diesel is roughly 165bhp 320+nm torque and gets 60mpg on my weekly driving without effort is reason enough to buy one. I got it used anyway so didn't get the "new car" premium added on to diesel models so don't have to wait any amount of time to break even. I don't think I'd ever buy a new car again anyway, new car prices seem to just be sky rocketing year after year...
I bought another Coupe 20VT for Petrol funs so diesel work mobile is no problem :slayer:
I bought another Coupe 20VT for Petrol funs so diesel work mobile is no problem :slayer:
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Tbh I'd have one no matter what my daily driver was . And using one as a Daily driver is just silly and quite risky lol.
. And using one as a Daily driver is just silly and quite risky lol.
but fun...
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Why does a diesel cost more to service?
My 2004 mk2b punto is a 1.3 multijet diesel (1249cc) the same 2004 mk2b 1.2 petrol is also 1249cc. My diesel needs an oil and filter change air filter and maybe a new fuel filter all costing about £50 is you buy some nice posh fully synthetic oil. It has a timing chain and once in a blue moon requires a new glow plug (which are surprisingly cheap)
A petrol needs the same oil and filter change. Air filter spark plugs ht leads, cambelt every 70k miles. Diesels tend to plod on for ever with out a service but patrols get tetchy if left more than 12-15k miles.
I'm not sure you can categorically say that all Diesel engines cost more to service than there petrol counter parts.
Another big bonus is that diesels don't put out so much CO2 so generally much cheaper to tax (£30 for my punto compared to £150 for the petrol version) and much higher mpg figures 60+mpg compared to 40+mpg in a petrol
I probably paid £1000 more for the diesel option at the time but I know I've saved at least £600 in road tax alone. And done 45k miles and not had to pay out another £150 for a cam belt change.
You need to take each car on its merits and not on just petrol versus diesel, when I bought mine I calculated it would cost something like 8p a mile to run including tax servicing, wear and tear and of course depreciation. (So although it might cost more to buy you get more for it when you sell it too
The only time a diesel can cost more than the equivalent petrol engine to look after is when you have a DPF :bang:. Can't believe the replacement cost of one of those, no wonder people take them out and modify the ECU accordingly :devil:
That was the point I was trying to make. It's only a matter of time before taking the dpf off becomes illegal anyway.
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Not only that criminals target CATS and DPF's now . I caught some little turd looking under my Yellow punto before it was scrapped.
Chased him off with a spade and called the cops, they told me it was the latest crime wave against cars due to the cash in price of the precious metals inside them.
. I caught some little turd looking under my Yellow punto before it was scrapped. Chased him off with a spade and called the cops, they told me it was the latest crime wave against cars due to the cash in price of the precious metals inside them.
Tbf factor in one dpf, turbo or dual mass flywheel failure and the diesel will have next to no chance of breaking even especially if there is a frugal petrol option available.
