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'Great Diesel Myth'

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'Great Diesel Myth'

RuSZ said:
I asked for evidence.

Opinions are not necessarily evidence unless supplied with data and sources to back it up.

But I'm not too bothered if he doesn't want to back up his opinion

I'm not one of these people who think that just because its there opinion it's correct, if someone shows me evidence then ill happily except it.
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Indeed opinions are just that, a summary of personal experience. No one ever said it's evidence.

I to am of the opinion that petrols are more reliable than modern diesel. Heck I can't prove it what any links, or even say its 100% correct, I even own a DERV now, something I've always said I'd never do. But from the experiences I've gained on here, and through life that's what I've concluded. Although I will hold my hands up and say really it's down to diesels probably being over rated due to costs.
 
dave said:
what does an alto do in real world?
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As I have no interest in altos...I had to look it up but appears you can expect mid 40s to early 50s but that was not my point....my point was ever since they changed the tax system to reward playing it official mpg figures are utter balls. I've actually bettered the official mpg figure for my car on a long run...how many modern economy car owners could say that? Or even how many can say they get within 10 to 15% of the claimed mpg day to day
 
StevenRB45 said:
As I have no interest in altos...I had to look it up but appears you can expect mid 40s to early 50s but that was not my point....my point was ever since they changed the tax system to reward playing it official mpg figures are utter balls. I've actually bettered the official mpg figure for my car on a long run...how many modern economy car owners could say that? Or even how many can say they get within 10 to 15% of the claimed mpg day to day
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I'll second that. Managed to smash book top MPG of any pre 2000 car I've driven. My bravo has a top mpg in the 70's according to paper, never managed to beat mid to hight 50's - and I know how to Eco drive! :(
 
Most Easterly Pandas said:
Indeed opinions are just that, a summary of personal experience. No one ever said it's evidence.

I to am of the opinion that petrols are more reliable than modern diesel. Heck I can't prove it what any links, or even say its 100% correct, I even own a DERV now, something I've always said I'd never do. But from the experiences I've gained on here, and through life that's what I've concluded. Although I will hold my hands up and say really it's down to diesels probably being over rated due to costs.
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And I'm the opposite.

In 5 years I've owned 5 PETROL cars. In that time I've had;
1 engine rebuild due to oil pump failure (Seat VAG block)
2 gearboxes (both fiat)
2 clutches
1 ECU

In the same time parents have owned the same diesel cars. One has had the egr fail and now blocked off.
 
RuSZ said:
And I'm the opposite.

In 5 years I've owned 5 PETROL cars. In that time I've had;
1 engine rebuild due to oil pump failure (Seat VAG block)
2 gearboxes (both fiat)
2 clutches
1 ECU
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Clutches are a wear and tear item, and luck of the draw as to how the car was driven before you owned it. Gearbox similarly, if it was thrashes etc, and could happen in both a DERV or petrol motor.

ECU & oil pump I'll give you though.
 
RuSZ said:
I asked for evidence.

Opinions are not necessarily evidence unless supplied with data and sources to back it up.

But I'm not too bothered if he doesn't want to back up his opinion

I'm not one of these people who think that just because its there opinion it's correct, if someone shows me evidence then ill happily except it.
Click to expand...

How do you give evidence of this anyway? As far as I know there aren't any statistics out there which do the comparison.

I've done my best to post examples unlike others who make claims which could be backed-up/disproved with evidence and then when I post evidence which goes against what they say they just call me a troll :rolleyes: Does that not seem a little unfair?

Like I said before, modern diesels simply aren't as reliable as they used to be. Like MEP said, they're pushing impressive power and torque figures out. No longer is 90bhp from a 1.9 acceptable as it was in my 406. You've got the same displacement engines pumping out 170+ BHP nowadays. Turbo's which weren't stressed before, now are and fail more regularly.

You seem to be confusing the fact that I'm saying diesels are less reliable than previous (due to being more complex and having more things to fail!) with me saying that diesels are now "unreliable". I never said that at all :)

Just remember that when a dpf equipped diesel does a regen, some of that fuel makes its way into the sump so those precision engineered turbo bearings that love spinning on nice 5w30 (or whatever grade oil the manufacturer uses) as they're designed to do, will now have diesel running through them with all the horrible stuff that's contained within diesel. Sulfur, particulate matter etc etc etc :)

Don't get me wrong, for the mile munchers diesel will always be the way to go, but as others have agreed, the case is less clear for people doing shorter journeys and it wasn't always like this......
 
306maxi said:
How do you give evidence of this anyway? As far as I know there aren't any statistics out there which do the comparison.
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That was my point.

you cant categorically say that, petrol is more reliable than diesel, without any proper research.

Untill you can supply proper statistics and figures proving it, it will be you opinion. You can think what you want, it is a free world.

but people who basically say "it my opinion so its right and your not allowed to think any other way" really **** me off
 
RuSZ said:
That was my point.

you cant categorically say that, petrol is more reliable than diesel, without any proper research.

Untill you can supply proper statistics and figures proving it, it will be you opinion. You can think what you want, it is a free world.

but people who basically say "it my opinion so its right and your not allowed to think any other way" really **** me off
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But I wasn't saying that petrols are more reliable, I said they were simpler (multiair's aside ;) ) and that there was more to go wrong with a modern diesel compared to older ones.

It used to be the case that diesel's were bulletproof things (my pug aside and I realise that was just a **** engine and that's not the fault of it being a diesel) but now there's more to worry about.

Like I said, I think feelings have spilt over from the other thread for some reason and come over into here.
 
RuSZ said:
But its common knowledge that other than the EGR that FIAT Deisels in FIAT/Vauxhall's are more reliable than the petrol counterparts.
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Just to draw your attention to this, where's the evidence? ;)

I'm not trying to be funny, but if you're going to do the same with me then it's only fair I do the same to you. Personally I would beg to differ, have a look on Alfaowner and you'll see lots of horror stories about the water pump on the 1.9 jtdm. 2.2 DCI engines from in Renno's and Nissan's aren't too great either. I'm sure you could find petrol engines which are similarly prone to failure also :) 1.2 twincharged VAG engines are a good example like you say.

P.S I applaud someone who asks for evidence btw (y) Opinions are useful, but evidence is much better. That's why I got annoyed last night when AndyRKett went against actual evidence by saying that Subaru's are reliable when most people think they're generally good and the warranty companies and surveys back it up :)
 
Freebo said:
Depends how you define 'better' performance its the TJet, MPG id go MJet :p
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I know, I was only joking :) If we're talking performance, diesels are far better than where they were 10-15 years ago, they sounded like tractors and were about as fast as them too.
 
Most Easterly Pandas said:
Your calculations cannot be correct. I also do 50 miles a day. Return around 52mpg average on my Bravo and fill up every 12 days approx also having done 600-650 miles at £75 (£5~). So how can you do same / less mpg, same mileage and have £30 cheaper fill each time :confused:
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I've only just seen this post, sorry. How did you get those things in your signature? I'll do one and then see. When I say 12 days I'm talking 7 of those days doing the journey to work and the others just pottering around town, although my mpg is horrendous around town.
 
Futures said:
I've only just seen this post, sorry. How did you get those things in your signature? I'll do one and then see. When I say 12 days I'm talking 7 of those days doing the journey to work and the others just pottering around town, although my mpg is horrendous around town.
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Join www.fuelly.com to track your fuel ups, and copy the link from that site into your signature (y)
 
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