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Old 16-09-2020   #11191
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
Is it too late to say you can't get on with the citroen, and that you want the Panda back?
Iíve been wondering what the ins and outs of that would be to be honest.

That dealership has had and sold around five DSís of various years and specs since they sold me mines. So I think theyíve found a model they can shift easily. They order them all over from England by truck from auction site. So I donít think they would be mad about taking back the DS as itíll sell quick .....

but perhaps my want for the Panda is worth ignoring since this is a nice car that I do love. On paper, it is more expensive and luxury and fast and stuff. But I donít feel just as proud to own it or Ďuniqueí like I did with the Panda, silly as that sounds.

Iím going to take the other 2015 Panda Pop for a spin tonight to get w feel for what thatíd be like, now Iím used the DS and itís 120 horses!
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Old 16-09-2020   #11192
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

It's a no brainer: the Panda is far better, lol! Plus, it'll be far cheaper to run too. If you want something a bit more plush, how about a Panda Lounge, or trying to find a late model, high spec Punto?
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Old 16-09-2020   #11193
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

I remember driving my much loved mk1 Punto 55s after a week of driving a mk1 85.

Let's just say the memories are usually better than the reality of a car that has no brakes, doesn't handle, doesn't accelerate, has barely any headlamps and comes with workout windows.

But maybe that's just me..
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Old 16-09-2020   #11194
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Somehow, Fiat manage to build emotion into their cars. You can't see it, but you can feel it once you've owned one. Even if you get a bad one, that you grow to hate, you'll still miss it when it's gone.
My Panda 169 was registered Jan 2006. I bought it at four years old, it is now 14 years old, only 77k miles, but it has been a good ten years together.
During this time I have had a couple of new 500s, and about a dozen new Fiestas, all as school cars, now my school car is a 2015 Fabia. All are arguably 'better' cars, better built, faster, and the Fabia is more economical, but I still choose the Panda for most non-work journeys, even the longer distances.
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Old 16-09-2020   #11195
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Somehow, Fiat manage to build emotion into their cars. You can't see it, but you can feel it once you've owned one. Even if you get a bad one, that you grow to hate, you'll still miss it when it's gone.
Still miss my punto. only thing stopping me buying a new fiat is their refusal to find a decent automatic gearbox to use.
It must lose them sales in the US too where many prefer an auto.
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Old 16-09-2020   #11196
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
It's a no brainer: the Panda is far better, lol! Plus, it'll be far cheaper to run too. If you want something a bit more plush, how about a Panda Lounge, or trying to find a late model, high spec Punto?


Iím so tempted as MAD as that sounds. I know.

I took my grannyís Panda (if you asked anybody I know, theyíd say Ďthat says it allí) for a quick drive around the backroads today. It felt immediately smaller inside. Much more basic. Things like the pedals felt different (the Panda has a better clutch and is more responsive on the accelerator).

It was dead slow compared to the DS, in the Panda, you put your foot down and it reacts immediately but only for a second. In the DS, you put your foot down and not much happens for a second. THEN, an insane amount of speed comes from nowhere when the turbo kicks in. BUT, the Panda still has Ďthe rightí level of power, I must admit. Going up hills in 3rd and 4th gear was a little bad again though.

The Panda is softer over speed bumps. The DS is brutal - sports suspension I think. Either way Iím shocked the Panda was comfier.

The Panda didnít feel Ďbadí whatsoever - I part suspected it would since Iím used to the DS fully now. It actually felt refreshing and down to earth - which I always liked about the Fiatís. If I had to go back to one tomorrow, I wouldnít mind. Iíd be just as happy as I was and learn to live within its limitations.

Yet, I donít think I will. 1, I donít know how the finance would work. 2, though the heart wants to go back to that simplicity and honest motoring, I think my brain is trying to override it by saying Ďmove on, move up - just a bití.

I donít think any car will live up to how I felt about the Panda 169 from 2015-19 and the Easy I had for the past year. But perhaps itís sentimental and the other things in life during those years that makes it all rose tinted?

Iíd like to hear all of your votes on this .... should I do the unimaginable and hand back my DS3 Ďupgradeí for the true to itself Panda? Iím curious to hear what you think. I think my family and friends would disown me if I actually did! (They thought Iíd never stop talking about the Panda)
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Old 17-09-2020   #11197
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

No.. stick with the Citroen..

You can have a 'classic FIAT' in years to come.
Once PSA have finished making the interesting cars
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Old 17-09-2020   #11198
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

It's up to you, if the CitroŽn is more suited to your current requirements then it's a backward step.

Seem to recall you did a lot of miles so diesel supermini would make sense.

I remember the ride quality on the DS3 being surprisingly bad, don't think ours had sports suspension (it was only a 90 e-hdi) and it still rode like a skate board. Smaller wheels and bigger section tyres would help a bit (C3 wheels are 3% larger in diameter but share a tyre size with many VW and Ford cars so tyres are super cheap as very common). But I always got the feeling the damping was very stiff which tyres can only help so much.

I remember being quite surprised when it arrived as I'd recently picked the Mazda which has a similar tyre size and although it's firm at lower speeds it never jars and shudders and once you get up to 60 odd mph it's nicely judged. DS3 seemed to find bumps the other car didn't even notice and was so firm it rattled the interior fixtures loose..or that could have been the old 90 diesel either way it was full of rattles day 1.

If you want a Panda though, you can get one similar to the one you had 2015 on for roughly a bag of crisps and can of pop in automotive terms so if you have somewhere to put it a weekend car is not exactly unattainable.
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Old 17-09-2020   #11199
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by puntofan01 View Post
or trying to find a late model, high spec Punto?
Fiat basically stripped the later punto of luxuries they even took away the EVO led tail lights after 2015. You wonít get a later model punto that has as good a spec at the DS

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
Iím so tempted as MAD as that sounds. I know.

I took my grannyís Panda (if you asked anybody I know, theyíd say Ďthat says it allí) for a quick drive around the backroads today. It felt immediately smaller inside. Much more basic. Things like the pedals felt different (the Panda has a better clutch and is more responsive on the accelerator).

It was dead slow compared to the DS, in the Panda, you put your foot down and it reacts immediately but only for a second. In the DS, you put your foot down and not much happens for a second. THEN, an insane amount of speed comes from nowhere when the turbo kicks in. BUT, the Panda still has Ďthe rightí level of power, I must admit. Going up hills in 3rd and 4th gear was a little bad again though.

The Panda is softer over speed bumps. The DS is brutal - sports suspension I think. Either way Iím shocked the Panda was comfier.

The Panda didnít feel Ďbadí whatsoever - I part suspected it would since Iím used to the DS fully now. It actually felt refreshing and down to earth - which I always liked about the Fiatís. If I had to go back to one tomorrow, I wouldnít mind. Iíd be just as happy as I was and learn to live within its limitations.

Yet, I donít think I will. 1, I donít know how the finance would work. 2, though the heart wants to go back to that simplicity and honest motoring, I think my brain is trying to override it by saying Ďmove on, move up - just a bití.

I donít think any car will live up to how I felt about the Panda 169 from 2015-19 and the Easy I had for the past year. But perhaps itís sentimental and the other things in life during those years that makes it all rose tinted?

Iíd like to hear all of your votes on this .... should I do the unimaginable and hand back my DS3 Ďupgradeí for the true to itself Panda? Iím curious to hear what you think. I think my family and friends would disown me if I actually did! (They thought Iíd never stop talking about the Panda)
youíre comparing apples to oranges to some extent, the panda is a non turbo petrol and the citroen a turbo diesel so they will have very different driving characteristics. If you drive on the turbo you will get much better performance but if youíre used to non turbo petrol cars then you wonít be used to using the turbo.

Also if you bought the DS on finance then youíre going to cost yourself a fortune to change it so quickly
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Old 17-09-2020   #11200
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
No.. stick with the Citroen..



You can have a 'classic FIAT' in years to come.

Once PSA have finished making the interesting cars

Thatís true. I suppose by the time Iím done with this DS there could be a better choice of Fiats merged with PSA technology which Iíll have experience with then.

Quote Originally Posted by StevenRB45 View Post
It's up to you, if the CitroŽn is more suited to your current requirements then it's a backward step.



Seem to recall you did a lot of miles so diesel supermini would make sense.



I remember the ride quality on the DS3 being surprisingly bad, don't think ours had sports suspension (it was only a 90 e-hdi) and it still rode like a skate board. Smaller wheels and bigger section tyres would help a bit (C3 wheels are 3% larger in diameter but share a tyre size with many VW and Ford cars so tyres are super cheap as very common). But I always got the feeling the damping was very stiff which tyres can only help so much.



I remember being quite surprised when it arrived as I'd recently picked the Mazda which has a similar tyre size and although it's firm at lower speeds it never jars and shudders and once you get up to 60 odd mph it's nicely judged. DS3 seemed to find bumps the other car didn't even notice and was so firm it rattled the interior fixtures loose..or that could have been the old 90 diesel either way it was full of rattles day 1.



If you want a Panda though, you can get one similar to the one you had 2015 on for roughly a bag of crisps and can of pop in automotive terms so if you have somewhere to put it a weekend car is not exactly unattainable.

The skateboard analogy is spot on!!! Lol. I seem to remember an ex girlfriends e-HDI 90 Citroen badged DS 3 being much smoother. Then again I had the Panda 169 back then. A week into owning my 2017 Panda I drove the 169 before selling it. The brakes were poor, steering numb and felt much worse in comparison. I was expecting the same driving the Ď15 Panda vs. The DS but as I mentioned above it wasnít so bad. Only the speed difference stood out.

But youíre right. The mileage was too much for the Panda I think. I suppose maybe next year I might be doing more high miles again (fingers crossed) and this will be clearly more suited.


Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
Fiat basically stripped the later punto of luxuries they even took away the EVO led tail lights after 2015. You wonít get a later model punto that has as good a spec at the DS







youíre comparing apples to oranges to some extent, the panda is a non turbo petrol and the citroen a turbo diesel so they will have very different driving characteristics. If you drive on the turbo you will get much better performance but if youíre used to non turbo petrol cars then you wonít be used to using the turbo.



Also if you bought the DS on finance then youíre going to cost yourself a fortune to change it so quickly


Yeah, I think I should stick with the DS. As much as I enjoyed the Pandas.

It made me realise though how different the two cars truly are. I do admire the simplicity and robustness of the Panda. I always didnít like the idea of big complicated engines and electronics and designs. But in saying that, Iím lucky to have the facility to be able to fix / learn how to fix this car too and save money on not having to pay a mechanic. So when the DS inevitably does break down more often than the Panda will, itís a good opportunity to learn.

Itís just a shame all the knowledge of ICE repairs probably wonít be doing me well as long as it has probably helped some of you guys over the decades due to the electric move.

Still, I appreciate all the advice. The DS stays. And I will watch to see what Fiat and PSA can release over time.
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Old 17-09-2020   #11201
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post
The skateboard analogy is spot on!!! Lol. I seem to remember an ex girlfriends e-HDI 90 Citroen badged DS 3 being much smoother. Then again I had the Panda 169 back then. A week into owning my 2017 Panda I drove the 169 before selling it. The brakes were poor, steering numb and felt much worse in comparison. I was expecting the same driving the ‘15 Panda vs. The DS but as I mentioned above it wasn’t so bad. Only the speed difference stood out.
Was the 90 hdi on 16s by any chance? As you know ours had the same wheels as yours does and that may be the difference.

PF1 chassis is old as the hills goes back to the 206 the suspension design seems to be either hard or soft with little finesse in between. It is however cheap and space efficient so at least you don't pay all the money for them and you get decent interior space for the exterior size.

When the chassis was designed 14s were the normal wheel and 15s were big so knowing psa it's probably not hugely optimised for the larger wheels. Fun fact for you..the stalks in both the DS3 and C3 were first seen in the Peugeot 307 in 2001. Also our ds3 had the exact same trip computer, door handles and window switches as the 307. They are better now...but christ they used a lot of stuff for a long time.

So not only did original DS3s reuse C3 headlamps, chassis and dashboard there's a reasonable amount of old Pug kicking about as well.
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Old 17-09-2020   #11202
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by StevenRB45 View Post
Was the 90 hdi on 16s by any chance? As you know ours had the same wheels as yours does and that may be the difference.

PF1 chassis is old as the hills goes back to the 206 the suspension design seems to be either hard or soft with little finesse in between. It is however cheap and space efficient so at least you don't pay all the money for them and you get decent interior space for the exterior size.

When the chassis was designed 14s were the normal wheel and 15s were big so knowing psa it's probably not hugely optimised for the larger wheels. Fun fact for you..the stalks in both the DS3 and C3 were first seen in the Peugeot 307 in 2001. Also our ds3 had the exact same trip computer, door handles and window switches as the 307. They are better now...but christ they used a lot of stuff for a long time.


Yeah I think it was on 16ís. It was the pre-facelift. I remember her driving over massive potholes and thinking ... how is this car not breaking our spines, and secondly, how many more before the suspension arms snap!!! Looking back, the lack of mechanical sympathy could have been an early red flag of what was to come .... lol

I didnít realise it shared so much. But at least itís not only Fiat who use the platforms for components so much between new models! Is it only the Germans that produce a new platform each time the car is renewed?!

I briefly learned to drive in my dads 307 1.4 petrol. He was going to give me that car when I learnt to drive in 2014 but it permanently crapped itself beforehand .... shame but as it was a smooth to drive car!

Just out of curiosity, what was the colour combination of your DS3? Mines is the ink blue and black roof. Though it might as well be all black because thatís how it seems to look 99% of the time

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Old 17-09-2020   #11203
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by SB1500 View Post

I didn’t realise it shared so much. But at least it’s not only Fiat who use the platforms for components so much between new models! Is it only the Germans that produce a new platform each time the car is renewed?!

Just out of curiosity, what was the colour combination of your DS3? Mines is the ink blue and black roof. Though it might as well be all black because that’s how it seems to look 99% of the time

Attachment 212621
PSA was penniless when it designed the DS3 the success of it and other cars cars like the 2008/3008 funded development for the stuff they are making now which is less parts bin rummage sale.

My dad had one of the 1st 307s in the country on Y plate on a 1.6 was a canny car but obviously brand spankers at the time.

DS3 was whisper purple and white..my wife likes a strong colour!

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Old 17-09-2020   #11204
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

Quote Originally Posted by StevenRB45 View Post
PSA was penniless when it designed the DS3 the success of it and other cars cars like the 2008/3008 funded development for the stuff they are making now which is less parts bin rummage sale.



My dad had one the 1st 307s in the country on Y plate on a 1.6 was a canny car but obviously brand spankers at the time.



DS3 was whisper purple and white..my wife likes a strong colour!



Attachment 212623


People say mines looks purple and I try to tell them about that colour which actually is!

I think they did a good job on the DS3. From 2009 to 2019, it only shows itís age design wise if you look closely at some details. The Ďshark finí seems to be, if anything, being used by most manufacturers now - even Audi and VW etc. (Bodywork rising up above the side window button line as such).

Looks like mines is hear to stay though!
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Old 17-09-2020   #11205
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II)

No where seems to sell cheap wet n dry sand paper and more, none in asda, poundland or home bargains,
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