Hey everybody, hope everyone had a good crimbo.

Just back from all the festivities with the family....driven home by the brother. Unfortunately, the drive home gave me a slight concern that I thought I would share with you all here, maybe get some advice.

My brother passed his test last year... and has never had an accident that has been his fault. In my oppinion, he is a terrible driver. Sad to say, but he only looks at the road directly infront of his bonnet which leaves him either nailing it into corners far to fast...breaking suddenly or ending up in the wrong gear.

I have tried numerous times to tell him this, obviously ending up in dented male pride and a slanging match.

The problem is, he usually drives a 1.2 Fiesta....this is in having accident damage fixed on it (some prat left his handbrake off in a car park and his car rolled into it!) and he has been given a 2 litre 308 as a courtesy car...which has considerably more power than his Fiesta.

He drove me home this evening from Stevenage (about a 30 mile trip) and I must say, even as inhibriated as I was...I was sh*tting myself as he launched into roundabouts, understering at every one.

After a horrific accident 3 years ago...I couldn't face driving for a few months...and in the end, all my mates booked a driver improvement course for me, where I went out with a police trainer. I learned some of the best lessons on this course and it totally changed the way I drive. (Best example I can think of, is hitting a corner too fast and trying to break...the instructor hooked his foot under the break and said "you've made your bed, now lie in it...never break while going round a bend!...scared the life out of me, but I always take bends properly now!)

I know I can be a fast driver at times...but I like to think I am fairly safe, and would certainly never risk anyone elses life in my car like that.

Just not sure what to do, as my brother doesn't see anything wrong with his driving...but fact is, unless he starts to look further ahead and pre-empting what is coming...and also driving to road conditions....I can see him having a serious accident.

Bit of a crappy email to post in the festive period, but something that is troubling none the least.


P

Is there anyone one in particular that he's close to and listens to? Mum/Dad/other sibling.

Try and have a word with whoever it is and ask them to have a gentle word with him.

I've unfortunatly also got friends who are like this. They often comment on my driving being so different and 'controlled'. They alway know I'm aware of my surroundings. Driving the other day, I pulled over... 'why have you randomly pulled over???' a friend said, I smile as 10 seconds later and ambulance flys past from behind us 'Id have never seen that' they said.

TBH there is only one friend of mine who I can really say 'knows' how to drive. Alot of youngsters learn to drive in cars with driver aids, and then get a car with them. They then don't know how to control their vehicles when these aids are over-come.

I very nearly had a head on smash with a Police 4x4 about 7 weeks ago. I'll have to show the footage from my T-eye recorder at some point, but the point being, as my wheels locked up and I was hurtling iminently towards it, I realised that to avoid collision, I needed to steer to the left and release my brakes. When I showed friends the majority said, 'I would have panniced and never have thought of releasing the brakes, and would have probably hit the police car'.

The main point I think is that you get some natural drivers, and others who are not, and some will only learn with time, mistakes, and misfortune.

Jon.

i basically live in stevenage lol

It's a bit like wanting to give up smoking. You (probably) will when you're ready. Unfortunately you can smoke for decades then give up and then live to
a right old age. The Institute of Advanced Motorists might be worth a try but they might be a bit geeky and old for him. If he will read a book, there are a number of them on the market, but at 04:20 my brain won't work sufficiently to remember who they were by. I think John Whitmore might be one. He was racing in the very early days of saloon car racing so that puts him about 80 now, but what he has to say is worth reading as there was no ABS or other driving aids around then. The basics of car control really haven't changed much in the last 50 years. If he can learn a little about momentum and inertia and how they affect a car, he may be a little further down the road to unerstanding how the car behaves. I'll have a look for other authors in the morning. The important thing is that he understands that the people who are trying to help him have the best of motives and they're not just queueing up to have a pop at him. I too used to instruct on the National Driver Improvement Scheme. It helped most people, but there were always some who were just going through the motions.

Thanks for the replies so far....National Driver Improvement Scheme...that's what it was called! Couldnt remember for the life of me...but I thought it was one of the best things I have ever done. Was taught a few advanced driving techniques and had to give a running commentry of hazards while driving....really opened my eyes up to how much further ahead I should be looking.

@Jamie.....I wouldn't admit to that

well personally i wouldn't worry if he normally drives a 1.2 fiesta there not all that fast and prone to under steer so he will more than likely have a small accident

has he ever driven a car with no driver aids

i started in fiat unos and puntos and never had power steering anti lock brakes tiny tires and there both tail happy cars

i think it's the way everyone should start driving it teaches you allot more about car control

littlepip17 said:

i started in fiat unos and puntos and never had power steering anti lock brakes tiny tires and there both tail happy cars

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Try driving a 3.0 litre Capri or a 1.8 litre Morris Marina to understand the true definition of a 'tail happy' car Even a 1.3 litre mk1/ 2 Ford Escort will spin its rear around with a bit of throttle tickling :spin:

Puntos and Unos are front wheel drive and as such never come close to the tail happiness of a rear wheel drive car - how can they when the drive is to the front wheels? The only reason a FWD drive will break the back end away is due to poor tyre traction or very stupid driving. And see video below for an example as to why you need rear wheel drive for tail happy driving i.e. drifting



And Dukes of Hazzard Charger street drift WTF????!!!!!

mehstg said:

Best example I can think of, is hitting a corner too fast and trying to break...the instructor hooked his foot under the break and said "you've made your bed, now lie in it...never break while going round a bend!...scared the life out of me, but I always take bends properly now!

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Best bit of advice you can give. If you've gone into a corner too fast the worst thing you can do is brake while you're in it. Gently lift off the accelerator and steer gently and you'll usually make it through. Cars can go surprisingly fast through bends anyway. 99% of the time it's when someone gets scared mid corner or on entry and brake that causes problems.

1986Uno45S said:

Try driving a 3.0 litre Capri or a 1.8 litre Morris Marina to understand the true definition of a 'tail happy' car Even a 1.3 litre mk1/ 2 Ford Escort will spin its rear around with a bit of throttle tickling :spin:

Puntos and Unos are front wheel drive and as such never come close to the tail happiness of a rear wheel drive car - how can they when the drive is to the front wheels? The only reason a FWD drive will break the back end away is due to poor tyre traction or very stupid driving. And see video below for an example as to why you need rear wheel drive for tail happy driving i.e. drifting

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Errr no. Just no. Your post is completely wrong

Fairly standard road car.

Well driven rally car




Both oversteer quite well. It takes skill to get a FWD car oversteering, stupid driving will only make you understeer.

As you dotn state your brothers age, I am assuming [apologies if I am wrong] he is maybe under 25.

My view is that a lot of young drivers drive bad when mates etc are in the car with them, its bravado. This is the time they are more likely to have a crash.

If he is in a car by himself driving along, he might drive much better and more sensible as he has nothing to prove to anyone.

Its unusual to have a 2L car as a courtesy car, and I assume here its from a garage and not a replacement company vehicle

Flame me down here at will!! but I believe that drivers over 17 and under 21 should be restricted to 1000cc and under, yeah there will be many pro's and con's but thats just my own view.


Heres hoping, your brother calms down, reads the road ahead better, and is safe.

levemir said:

Flame me down here at will!! but I believe that drivers over 17 and under 21 should be restricted to 1000cc and under, yeah there will be many pro's and con's but thats just my own view.

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Sadly I don't think this will help. In younger and more stupid days I managed to go sideways round a roundabout in the wet in my 131 with only about 70bhp and with an auto gearbox. People will always find a way to kill themselves no matter what.

The police use a technique of describing their journeys, when doing advanced driving training, like a running commentary to display what they have seen, speeds, road conditions etc. I started doing this in my head when I was about 25 (and the fastest driver not to be in F1) on the way to work. It makes you realise how much information you need to think of and the distance you need to anticipate problems, rather than thinking everything is well, you start to prepare for situations that havent occurred just by anticipating situations much earlier and being prepared for them if they occur. This isnt being slow its just being prepared before you get into the situation so your reactions are much less drastic, and much less likely to destabilise the vehicle.

levemir said:

Flame me down here at will!! but I believe that drivers over 17 and under 21 should be restricted to 1000cc and under, yeah there will be many pro's and con's but thats just my own view.

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I agree, but maybe up it slightly to 1.2 8v etc (do it on power/acceleration).

And do it for first 2 years of driving (within the probationary 6 points thingy)

Jon.

ive been driving 3 years and driven a manner of vehicles in my time.

if we were to be restricted on what we drive, it could affect some of our jobs.

at 18 i was going out in a transit van... and they dont make them with less then 1000cc

i dont think you should be restricted... because tbh, there isnt all that many cars on the road with less then 1000cc these days (maybe a few citroens/peugeots/toyotas etc)

JFL said:

ive been driving 3 years and driven a manner of vehicles in my time.

if we were to be restricted on what we drive, it could affect some of our jobs.

at 18 i was going out in a transit van... and they dont make them with less then 1000cc

i dont think you should be restricted... because tbh, there isnt all that many cars on the road with less then 1000cc these days (maybe a few citroens/peugeots/toyotas etc)

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Thats true. Smallest fiat on sale at the mo is 1.1 (1108cc) isn't it

Saw a fantastic clip on one of those police programmes on cable.
Young guy driving his mates back to Aylesbury from Amersham - where they had just been to the funeral of a handful of their mates who were killed in a horriffic driving acident.
The moron behind the wheel is obviously intent in showing off his 'skills' to his passengers (and, probably, how he wouldn't have been killed in the same accident?). He fails to notice the unmarked police car trailling him for many miles.
When plod finally tugs him in Aylesbury, the stupid look on his face is just a picture..."I'm sorry"
'It's not me you should be apologising to, it's your mates in the car that you could have killed with your dangerous driving'

Sadly, some people are just too stupid for their own good & no amount of telling will change their ways.

First vehicle I drove was a 1560cc Berlingo (at 17); absolutely no way I could have done my job with a 1.0 or even 1.2l limit...

was merely my own thoughts, and always open to criticism and adjustment!

Cian said:

First vehicle I drove was a 1560cc Berlingo (at 17); absolutely no way I could have done my job with a 1.0 or even 1.2l limit...

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So you got the job after you passed your test? So if you werent allowed to drive a vehicle of that cc you wouldnt of got the job

NumanR said:

So you got the job after you passed your test? So if you werent allowed to drive a vehicle of that cc you wouldnt of got the job

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basically what he was saying

quite a few jobs require even people who have just passed there test to drive larger engined vehicles