Register Login
Mr FIAT - Your #1 source for vintage car parts
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-04-2019   #1
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Insurance Box Policy

Hi Guys, Iím a new driver and my insurance was very expensive so Iíve had to get a black box even with that my insurance was £1900. The box I have been given is a smart miles box so no one installs it into the car just simply lugged onto the battery. Iím wondering if I could disconnect the battery and just hook the monitor onto a spare battery I have and just leave it in my garage and act as if Iím not using the car. I know this is pretty illegal but itís annoying
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

BJHaig is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 10-04-2019   #2
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: highlands
Posts: 2,388
Thanks: 96
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Insurance Box Policy

Erm, you do realise that this is an open forum & insurance companies actually do follow this & other forums.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jimboy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-04-2019   #3
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 1,234
Thanks: 57
Trader Rating: 0
chris3234 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Insurance Box Policy

Physically yes but what happens when the box says you driven 3k miles and you're next mot shows 9k mileage?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

chris3234 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 11-04-2019   #4
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: highlands
Posts: 2,388
Thanks: 96
Trader Rating: 0
United Kingdom 
Re: Insurance Box Policy

This is one of those posts that even looking outside the box, no pun intended, will only end in a bad way sooner or later costing even more money.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

jimboy is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 12-04-2019   #5
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Faringdon, Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 5,981
Thanks: 468
Trader Rating: 1
portland_bill has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Insurance Box Policy

I'd guess the box contains motion sensors, so if left stationary in the garage will record no movement. You'd need to disconnect/connect regularly, or it mught look like you are permanently on.
It may well have a voltage sensor too. So that when the alternator starts charging, it wakes up and records. Attaching it to a separate battery will leave it permanently asleep.

Then of course, you may be guilty of insurance fraud.
That will render you uninsured, big fine, maybe huge liability if you end up having to pay compensation for the rest of your life. And any future insurance will be difficult and very expensive.

You could just drive properly, like you were taught. Use the data to improve your driving. Join an advanced drivers group and improve your standard, to enjoy your driving and reduce risk.
https://www.iamroadsmart.com/
https://www.roadar.org.uk/groups/index.htm

You should be aiming to become a safer driver, not trying to circumvent the device that is supposed to help achieve that.
__________________
13 years motor trade, 16 years motor industry. 14 years Driving Instructor & 7 years Fleet Trainer
Panda Alessi
portland_bill is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 18-04-2019   #6
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southampton, Hampshire
Posts: 3,709
Thanks: 271
Trader Rating: 0
s130 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Insurance Box Policy

Just to add a spanner into the works (for either the insurance company or the insured party) these boxes are essentially surveillance devices and as such all the documented T&Cs should be very explicit, GDPR compliant, etc. etc. AND IF there are other named drivers on the policy then their direct and explicit consent has to be obtained. So (for example) if the partner, wife, mother, father, uncle ...... are on the policy then each and everyone have to give their explicit consent.

So lets take hubby/wife for example

Hubby takes policy agrees/gives consent but the wife is NOT specifically contacted then her consent is absent. So does this void the policy for the husband as all named drivers have not given consent? Did the insurance company follow up and notify the hubby that the wife has not given consent? This could be an interest minefield buried very deep within all the small print which nobody reads.

Insurance companies will find any and every opportunity not to payout/cover. When I was doing motor sport in my road car I had to declare even silly items like the ignition off direction label around the key barrel that was required along with taped headlamps, yellow battery negative earth taping, etc.

How LOW some companies will go is unbelievable. Many years ago I was driving my mum's car on my insurance with an insurance certificate that said I was entitled to do so. I was shunted from behind. Police did a roadside and house visit checking all docs and were 100% happy. The insurance company later claimed I was not insure. WHAT!?

There was a SCHEDULE (back in the 70s never really given to customers) that said I had to be 21 for the other vehicle cover to be valid. But they had issued me with a certificate that said I was covered. But I was 21!

Fortunately my parents were with the AA and AA legal got involved. The insurance company agreed I was 21, issued new documents identical to those already issued but would not retract their position. My mum was cautioned for allowing me to drive, I was cautioned for driving with no insurance yes all documentation clearly detailed that I was and was accepted by the police from day 1. But the insurance company said no.

This whole episode was a nightmare never to be forgotten. Parent/AA Legal submitted all data to Chief of Police. They agreed and dropped all charges but that still left the insurance company saying I was not insured and despite AA Legal, Police, etc. would not change their position. As I was not at fault the insurance company's stupid stance meant nothing as other were paying out.

Had this been the other way round where I was at fault I hate to think for how long and what expense this would have gone to.

My advise to everyone is tell all, no mater how minor and make notes. I currently drive a nice 500X to which I fitted a tow bar. Regardless of if I needed to I've declared the towbar and electric modifications to my insurer.

Were I to put fancy go faster stripes/decals/similar on my car I will declare them. Same for wheel rim and tyre size changes, etc.

ANYTHING that you do to your car that might make it more attractive to potential thieves, joy riders, etc. or modifies the vehicle from production standard IS THEIR GET OUT CLAUSE.

And to be level fair to insurance companies they need to know their risk and then accept it with or without a premium increase.

So say a bog standard Fiat Uno/Punto/whatever that is totally unmodified except for required safety labelling and possibly a race harness is parked by the side of the road. Some pricks see the TOW point sign on the front/rear, or the ignition off, etc. labels and the dim wits automatically assume that under the bonnet is some serious machinery. The WILL gravitate to this car as opposed to the identical one lacking the labels parked alongside.

As for trying to bypass / fool required devices then think very carefully. As mentioned it comes down for fraud and were one to be at fault in an accident and seriously injure and kill someone then you, your future family will be paying heavily for the rest of your/their life.

Enough said.
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

s130 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-04-2019   #7
Official Trader
 
ChrisKnottIns's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hastings, East Sussex
Posts: 530
Thanks: 28
Trader Rating: 0
ChrisKnottIns is an official FF Advertiser
United Kingdom 
Re: Insurance Box Policy

Quote Originally Posted by s130 View Post
Hubby takes policy agrees/gives consent but the wife is NOT specifically contacted then her consent is absent. So does this void the policy for the husband as all named drivers have not given consent?
I'm not looking to enter into an argument or anything but feel that this bit needs clarifying because it will apply to nearly everyone reading your post...

If there's a customer/client relationship based on contract (which insurance is) the provider will likely not rely on consent as the basis for processing the data. Much more likely that 'legitimate interest' will be the legal basis instead. The data subjects do have the right to request that data processing ceases but that could mean that the service can no longer be provided.
__________________
Chris Knott Insurance Ė official forum insurance partner
Please call 0800 917 2274 (or 01424 200477 - cheaper for mobiles)
and QUOTE REF: 762-FIF
Follow us on Twitter
Like us on Facebook
ChrisKnottIns is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Old 23-04-2019   #8
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southampton, Hampshire
Posts: 3,709
Thanks: 271
Trader Rating: 0
s130 has donated!
United Kingdom 
Re: Insurance Box Policy

Quote Originally Posted by ChrisKnottIns View Post
I'm not looking to enter into an argument or anything but feel that this bit needs clarifying because it will apply to nearly everyone reading your post...

If there's a customer/client relationship based on contract (which insurance is) the provider will likely not rely on consent as the basis for processing the data. Much more likely that 'legitimate interest' will be the legal basis instead. The data subjects do have the right to request that data processing ceases but that could mean that the service can no longer be provided.
Thanks for your post ChrisKnottInsurance.

I don't want arguments either but GDPR has put a huge spanners in the works and CLARITY is paramount. I would like to think that what you elude to is fair and industry standard. However the industry (not just insurance) are well behind the legal compliance and understanding of GDPR. I'm still receiving GDPR related approval requests LONG AFTER GDPR became mandatory and several years after GDPR was approved and passed by the EU with a future implementation date.

No complicated legal cases have come to court yet but this would be an interesting example one where the insurance company loses out.


Hubby takes policy requiring "active tracking/monitoring device". Adds wife as as a named driver. Wife has accident where the monitoring device proves she was at fault. Wife then contests the that the data was not obtained with HER consent and hubby never told her. She takes her case to the European Court Of Justice claiming that data gathered about her was not specifically approved by her prior. More importantly this data is being used against her.

Now you, me or others can not say what would legally happen in this case. Would have to be played out in court.

However had the insurance company fully complied with GDPR as soon as a named driver is added to a policy then they should have specifically sought that person's approval to use monitoring data. If they say yes then fine the additional named driver is contracted into the policy. If they say no then the insurance company has the right to exclude them as a named driver.

My point is this. I want to be 100% legal and anybody in my family 100% legally covered in all/any circumstances. For this we all need absolute clarity and compliance by all parties and sadly this is not happening.

This is why I'm very over sensitive to "if **** happens" (my fault or otherwise) am I covered. Are you covered?

You will find posts by me about ensuring your insurance company is 100% aware of *any* additions/modifications/go faster stripes that are applied to a production standard vehicle. And quite rightly so. And yes underwrites can use the excuse that you put go faster stripes on your vehicle and thus invalidate your insurance if you did not tell them. Petty? Possibly? Fair? Possibly? The real point is defined clarity and correct information from all parties. GDPR has added a new requirement and sadly to date compliance is low and in the case of the hubby/wife scenario above I think the wife would win her day in court. And if you think this is a little tough then you also have to think about the EUs position. They have created GDPR. They want to enforce GDPR so they WILL favour the wife's case and use this as "case law" and also to shake up the industry. Makes 100% sense to them.

Again and please .... I'm not picking/looking for a fight/etc. I would certainly be interest in what your underwriter's legal people think of the hubby/wife example I've given?
__________________
FIAT Forum Useful Links:
Donate to FF | Buy FF Merchandise | Classifieds | FF Insurance | How-to Guides

s130 is offline Reply With Quote Quote 
Reply
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump
Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Changing car on insurance policy... killahboo Insurance 4 20-07-2011 09:14
Second car insurance, mirrored policy etc? mrcinquecento Insurance 1 24-06-2009 21:58
Insurance Policy help Anonymous FIAT Boo Archives 5 30-10-2005 18:33