Technical 1.4 8v Check Engine - P0202

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Technical 1.4 8v Check Engine - P0202

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2009 Grande Punto 1.4 8v - Check Engine - P0202

Hello

Looking for some input for a novice, before I give up and take it to a garage.

Car hasn't had a lot of use lately but engine light came on when on the motorway recently, after about 5 minutes at ~60mph. The dash display seemed to reset and car felt sluggish for a moment. Light stayed on for the rest of the journey, and the momentary sluggishness happened a few more times. Next time, the light was off. Happened again next time on the motorway a week later. After a few weeks like this, the light is now on continuosly and the car is sluggish.

From what I read it sounded like coil pack, HT leads, spark plugs or wiring, but fault codes would help.

So I bought a cheap bluetooth reader (blue ELM32 one) and read the fault codes with the Torque Lite app:

P0202 - Injector Circuit - Cylinder 2

Reading a bit more, suggestions of failed fuel injector.

So, am I on the right track with this?

For this fault, as a novice am I likely to get any benefit from trying MultiECUScan (free version, if it even works with my reader)?

I've searched for photos and videos for replacing fuel injectors on this engine and haven't found much of use.

Here's a photo of the area, with the air filter off. Where are the fuel injectors? Are they the rusty cyclindrical things you can see below the HT leads? (one is obscured by the cabling).

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Any tips/photos/videos on how to proceed greatly appreciated.


Car is 2009 Grande Punto Active 77 1.4 8v. 45K miles.

Thanks
 

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Before buying a new injector , swap it with another injector from the next cylinder to see if the fault is moved to the next cylinder by giving a p0203 code for example. If in doubt, you'd better take it to a garage.

If indeed code was changed, the injector would be faulty. If code was same, then it leaves a possible wiring fault to the injector. Good luck.

The cylindrical ones just under the HT leads are the injectors.
 
Thanks. I'll have a go at removing the coil pack and see if I can get access. I'll try the swap if I can.

This guy's video for spark plugs is pretty good and in the same area (shame he's not done one for fuel injectors): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CDr2SDtDbY. I've watched videos for other cars but not found any that look similar. I changed the alternator last year following another of his videos.

I'm in Fife. If I get stuck, I'll see about MultiECUScan. The website does mention supprting ELM327 bluetooth devices, but I don't know if that includes the free version. Also sounds like it might need a mod (which I can do, but just more effort :cool:).
 
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Not had much time, but I did the screwdriver test on the injectors - engine running, holding a screwdriver against each injector and putting your head on the screwdriver handle to feel the vibration.

All injectors were ticking away sounding exactly the same. To me this suggests electrically things are ok so possibly just a clogged injector - sound about right?

In terms of removing them, can I remove the whole rail with the 4 injectors on or do I need to pull the injector out in situ?

If I'm removing the rail, I need to disconnect the fuel line. I saw a video on how to depressurise the fuel on a mk2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7T8HFhsuKg. Any other precautions to take? Do I need to disconnect the battery and/or remove the fuel pump fuse?
 
Fixed... for now at least.

Found pictures of the rail and injectors on eBay to get an idea of what I was dealing with and decided it should be possible to remove it as one piece.

  • Disconnected the battery negative terminal just in case.
  • Removed the bolts and connector holding the coil pack and moved it a out of the way a few inches (left it connected to spark plugs)
  • Removed the electrical connector on the injector rail and undid the two bolts holding it in.
  • Left the fuel line connected for now
  • WD40 around the each injector socket
  • Wiggled the rail and lifted upwards as far as possible.
  • WD40 on the ends of the injectors and a clean with a toothbrush
Decided to put it back together and see if that helped and it seems to have - no more engine light and engine sounds ok. :)

I'll take it out during the week and see how it goes. Might also try adding some Redex next time I get petrol.
 
Not fixed!

Took it out for a drive and the light came back on with a couple of minutes. Maybe it was just the act of removing the battery that cleared it. It came back once the display updated with mpg, etc.

So when I get another chance I'll take it apart again and this time disconnect the fuel line to remove completely, swap injectors 2 and 3 and see where the fault ends up.

Which way are the injectors identified is it 1 2 3 4 or 4 3 2 1?
 
Indeed the ECU was reset by disconnecting the battery.


I remember Haynes manual stating it's 1 2 3 4 but I'm not 100% sure.

Be careful, the plastic connectors may be flimsy. Also clean the electrical connectors with contact cleaner. Same code after injector swap could indicate a faulty wiring and injectors should be ok. Some previous Fiat models have had this issue, so you may find some useful information by searching the forums.
 
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Thanks again for the input. I thought the screwdriver test - where I could feel all injectors moving at (approx.) the same rate - might suggest it wasn't electrical, but based on comments and that link it sounds like it can't be ruled out.

The car has pretty low mileage and had no issue before lockdown. I'd be surprised if the wiring has deteriorated from sitting idle but I suppose a loose connection might take a while to manifest. Based on its history I thought stale petrol or carbon build up might be more likely cause.

Hopefully swapping the injectors will reveal more.

My next challenge is getting the fuel line off the injector rail in a tight space. I've no idea how it works - whether to just pull or whether there's a clip or anything. We'll see...
 
Had a go at swapping over the injectors. Still couldn't get the fuel line off, but was able to get enough access to flip the injector rail over and access the injectors. Some petrol spileage but not a lot. Not being certain which injector was #2 I swapped the middle two over.

My multimeter battery is dead so I couldn't do any tests on the wiring on the rail harness.

When I turned the engine on after the swap, it sounded a lot worse. Like it would probably stall if I did rev it a bit. Checked the fault codes and now I see both P0202 and P0203. I didn't clear the previous fault code, so hopefully this is normal and doesn't mean that both are now faulty?

Oddly, unlike last time the fault was there as soon as I turned the ignition. Last time I'd disconnected the battery and the fault went away until I'd driven the car a little.

Conclusions? If the fault codes accumulate, then P0203 suggests the fault moved with the inector so injector #2 is bad. If the previous fault code should have cleared itself, then my man-handling has damaged wires on the harness for injector #3 as well.

Some photos attached of the injector rail pulled out and inverted but still attached to fuel line and that pesky fuel line connector - looks like you should just press in the tabs at the side and pull off, but it wouldn't budge.
 

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You're on the right track. Now use code reader to clear the fault codes and run the engine to see which of them reappear.

There are few options:
  1. Swapped injector on 3rd cylinder is indeed faulty
  2. Unless you have installed it poorly or damaged the wiring
  3. p0202 should not reappear after fault cleared
 
Cleared faults and P0203 came back so it looks like it's the injector itself. New one ordered. (y)
 
I have had a similar issue with our 2011 Panda 1.2. P0202 and P0203 my software says this is a misfire on the 2 and 3 cylinders. I replaced the coil pack and plug leads 2 days ago and can report that the codes have not reappeared. Additionally the car has notably more power and a much more even tick-over. Coil pack was from shop4parts and was an excellent price. (Magneti Marelli)
Original equipment manufacturer for FPT is in fact Champion for any who want stay OE spec.

The light used to come on if the speedo got much past 75and would go off if I eased back to 60 leaving the codes in the ECU memory.
 
Hi all Im having a P0302/P0300 error coming up. To check the 2nd cyclinder can you simply just swap the 2 plugs as shown below and start the engine and scan the OBD? Thanks
 

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Dude, don't be fool. That's ignition coil. If you mess those leads up, it'll cause severe engine damage. Don't do anything if you don't really know what you're dealing with.


What you should try is to replace all the spark plugs, ht leads and if it continues, change the ignition coil too. In the meantime please search google and these forums with those misfire codes because that is a misfire code which is probably not related to fuel injectors and to this topic.
 
Dude, don't be fool. That's ignition coil. If you mess those leads up, it'll cause severe engine damage. Don't do anything if you don't really know what you're dealing with.


What you should try is to replace all the spark plugs, ht leads and if it continues, change the ignition coil too. In the meantime please search google and these forums with those misfire codes because that is a misfire code which is probably not related to fuel injectors and to this topic.

The spark plugs were changed 2 weeks ago so it's not that. The engine light flashes when I go above 65mph and stops flashing when i decelerate below this speed.
I was looking on youtube before and many people were willy nilly changing the ignition coils to see if the error code changed cylinders (i.e. po302 to po303). That is what i am asking how to do and if changing the plugs in the pictures will have the same effect of changing the code. Ive searched all over this forum and no one has done the swap test for a grande punto thats everywhere on youtube. Many people are doing multimeter tests instead.

I know it's a misfire, semi related to this thread. Any other bits of advice?
 
The spark plugs were changed 2 weeks ago so it's not that. The engine light flashes when I go above 65mph and stops flashing when i decelerate below this speed.
I was looking on youtube before and many people were willy nilly changing the ignition coils to see if the error code changed cylinders (i.e. po302 to po303). That is what i am asking how to do and if changing the plugs in the pictures will have the same effect of changing the code. Ive searched all over this forum and no one has done the swap test for a grande punto thats everywhere on youtube. Many people are doing multimeter tests instead.

I know it's a misfire, semi related to this thread. Any other bits of advice?
Has the car had a timing belt replaced in the last year or two?

As this is starting to sound like the sorrt of issues you get if the phonic wheel relearn hasn't been carried out after a belt change
 
This has casette type ignition coil which cannot be tested the way you intend to. If they were separate coils, then it'd possible to change only one faulty coil. This time you need the change to whole thing if you think the ignition coil is faulty.


There's a very good reason why you don't want to swap those on this type of GP which i mentioned earlier. Unless you really hate the car already and want to scrap it afterwards. Cheapest thing would be to replace all the ht leads. You could also check that they are indeed installed properly.


There still is possibility of other things like worn engines, faulty headgasket... among other things.
 
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