Technical anyone changed a front subframe?

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Technical anyone changed a front subframe?

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wilmslow, cheshire
FFS!

I have had this corner of the suspension and wheel bearing off a couple of times recently but didnt notice what was staring me right in the face, a rusty hole in the subframe, I noticed it today as I had a slow puncture and swapped the wheel over.

looking back to last year sometime when I changed my struts, a pic I took then of the same area and there was no rust hole, so its developed quickly.

it seems to be in an area of thinner steel compared to the rest of the subframe where the lower arm bolts to, I think its a closing piece to cover some box section type steel.


so anyway, a friend says he can weld it - with the arm off [it needs new ones anyway] there is access to sand it down and cut out the rot, reading various places on the web leads me to think that even if it was welded, it would still fail its MOT anyway, so it might be money wasted.


I have just about had enough now, I cant sell it on like this, and it wont pass its next mot like this, I cant afford to buy another car either, so am probably gonna have to replace the subframe.


Now, some of the other components have been changed, struts/coil springs, drop links, but there is play in the track control arm ball joints as well as the inner tie bars and outer track rods.


I might just suck it up, and buy another subframe.


then, I can put new arms straight on it, and when I take mine off [with rack attached...?] I can then change the inner tie bars on the rack with relative ease while its off the car, and lift the whole lot up into place


it will mean the car being off the road for a few days, so I might have to take a couple of days off work to sort it.

in the meantime I am gonna buy all the bits I need, the local fiat breakers has a subframe on ebay - same one fits all GP's, I am going to phone them about it because I want assurance that it will be sound. I will buy new arms, new tie bars, new track rod ends.


so, the big question is, to any of you who might have changed a subframe on a GP - is it doable?

[from what I have read, undo steering knuckle to rack [after centering], undo lower track control arm ball joint bolts, remove rear gearbox steady, undo ARB drop links, undo main subframe bolts, drop to ground [also, exhaust - I do have a back box to replace so can do that at same time?]


I think I will try and crack loose the mounting bolts one by one sometime soon, and retighten, just to see cos I think if they are gonna come out then it might be ok to do.


thoughts please


have a pic

2021-04-09 09.49.52.jpg


:cry:(n):mad::bang:
 
YES its a diy job.
Top tips....spray every bolt you can see with a quality wd 40 type spray..and do it more than once,and use a wire brush on them.
Get the car up on 4 axle stands,as high as you can.
I would invest £10 in some foam,interlocking mats from Halfords. They have transformed the working experience, both outside/inside..being warm and soft/comfortable they make a BIG difference..
If you can get the subframe before you start the job..its a good reference point.

And treat yourself to an impact wrench...life will never be the same...
 
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Yes did it back in 2017, not a spot of rust on body and that yoke red rotten! Can't remember having any bother, did clutch and drive seals at the same time. The car was sold about 4 months later for a very good price. I'd surely remember if I had any bother. I cleaned it off, cut out the rust and welded in new metal, all treated after and put back.
 
thanks for replies and other links to others with same issue

I think my track control arms are going to need doing asap, so although its best to do the whole lot in one job I think I will have to put new arms in as soon as I can and when I do those I will crack loose the subframe bolts and retighten, and then when we are in better weather I will do the subframe, and swap the new arms to the new sub, along with inner tie bars on the rack while its off the car.

I know its gonna be a heavy job, but its basic nuts and bolts, I think lifiting it back up into place will be the hardest part, but theres only me here and I will have to struggle! I have a good large trolley jack and I might modify the saddle by attaching a piece of 3x2 wood beam to it to help spread the load and help to balance it.

I am gutted, and dont know why I missed it before, but perhaps its for the best cos if I didnt find out until its next MOT in October, it would have failed and left me very stuck.
 
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I have been to blackpool and back to get my subframe, I asked the guy to give it a going over in the problem area with a wire brush, so I could see it was sound. it is.

it does have surface rust starting, but overall the whole unit looks quite new, compared to mine which looks like its been under the sea.

2021-04-12 13.14.41.jpg

2021-04-12 13.15.20.jpg

I put my car on ramps right away when I got back, I wanted to have a go at moving the subframe bolts, they all move, I was having trouble moving one of the track control arm bolts, and I could not get the gearbox steady main centre bolt to crack, that was with a 24" breaker bar.

the bolts have seen better days, I am struggling to find them to buy, the website I used for getting parts diagrams and part numbers has gone offline, so I dont even know what the part numbers are.

I know they are M12 thread, but not sure if they are a fine thread, I might be able to get them from an engineering shop I use, does anyone know if they are all the same length?
 
I have managed to source from various places, new subframe bolts, new TC Arm bolts [save me splitting old arms off the subframe] , new ARB bushes.

I still have arms to buy, and track rod ends and inner tracking rods, bank account cant take the abuse just yet, all the other smaller bits and bobs were a small fortune but working with new bolts will pay off at the end.

when the time comes to drop the old subframe, I think I am going to chance leaving the rack attached to the car and undo it off the subframe, the subframe should drop away, it might not work but the steering joint knuckle thing by the pedals looks awkward to undo and it will save any upsetting of the steering angle, I can work on the rack to change the parts I need quite easily then - if I can get to the inner tie bar joint fixing, I will pull the old boots off and crack them loose before I drop the subframe.

in the meantime I have wire wheeled the very slight surface rust on my new frame, rust killed it, and applied etch primer and some matt black paint to cover. it will be fine.
 
Thanks for the heads up about that subframe area, will closely check that when I next see the lads Punto next month.

Thanks.

How did the subframe change go, like clockwork I hope ?

rich.
 
Thanks for the heads up about that subframe area, will closely check that when I next see the lads Punto next month.

Thanks.

How did the subframe change go, like clockwork I hope ?

rich.

wont be for a couple of weeks yet, I still have some parts to buy, and want to make sure I have everything I need before starting the job
 
Good plan, making sure all bolts etc. are free and will come out prior to the day...

Should go like clockwork...

Do Kwik fit still do free wheel alignment checks ?
 
so I have been waiting for a few parts to arrive and I had a couple of no shows which has delayed things a bit

my plan to leave the rack on the car isnt going to happen, this is because the rack has a nut and bolt arrangement, and the nut is between the rack and the body, its not accessible really [with ease], so I am going to drop the rack attached to old subframe.

I have got new inner tie rods, boots and track rod ends, I have loosely made them up and I will set them to the same length as the current ones to give me a starting point and then I will just swap them over off the car and that should be quite easy.
2021-04-28 14.02.50.jpg

I had the car on ramps again yesterday and cracked the gearbox steady main bolt, I gave all the subframe bolts another move as well and I am happy now that all 6 of those will undo well. the bolt heads are a bit crusty but I have bought all new ones.

Also new, are the bolts and a couple of nuts that attach the track control arms to the subframe, I am dropping my old subframe with arms attached, the whole lot will be scrapped as one, I will put the new subframe in and then put the new arms in afterwards with new nuts and bolts.

2021-04-28 14.03.36.jpg

another new part, I have got replacement ARB rubbers, and also the front exhaust rubbers [I bought these by mistake last year, thinking they were rears] so I can just cut my old ones off.

Yesterday I bought some Silverline used 3t axle stands, my originals arent the best and can be a bit wobbly, I need the car to be supported rock solid doing this job, these will do the job lovely.
2021-04-28 14.04.33.jpg

Its cost a considerably amount of money on all these parts, but its also a considerable part of the car and I want it to be right.

www.alfaworkshop.co.uk and www.fiatworkshop.co.uk [same people] supplied most of my bolts and I was impressed by their service.


Just waiting for my TCA's, I hope to start this job on saturday morning.
 
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subframe swapped!

one of the TCA arm bolts was a pain to get out, but after that it all came out quite easy, I was worried that the steering joint was going to be pain but it came apart with ease

I made a cradle for it out of some wood that I screwed to the saddle on my trolley jack, this helped lower it and also lift the new one into place, it was a faff getting it lined up - the bolt holes are bigger than the bolts so there is wiggle room, I just made sure it was as central as possible after much tweaking.

am done for today, been on it since 10.30am until about 3pm, I started work last night at 2am and got on with the swap when I got home.

still got TCA's to fit, a job for tomorrow, I need an hours kip now.

when complete, I have pics, here is one to go on with

2021-04-30 12.14.19.jpg
about to drop old one complete with TCA's
 
so I knocked up a cradle out of an end piece of garden fence, screwed to the saddle of the jack, it worked well

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001.jpg

and here is a video clip of my lowering the subframe, pulling it from under the car, and a quick glance over.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2G3dM6qkoSD7pN2WA


this is the subframe with race and ARB on it as removed

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another view

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I left the rack attached while I removed the old inner tie bars, these didnt have hex fittings so to do this on the car would have been difficult

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I used the old tie bar and track rod end to set the approximate length of the new ones, it will be fine as a starting point

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One side fitted to rack

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Time to get "new" subframe out, and start to move the rack and ARB over

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I bought new ARB bushes, but the old mounts could not be split, they were sort of pressed together and no amount of faffing about with a chisel would get them split, so I had to refit without having new bushes, it irritated me a lot that they dont come part easily like on most other cars, I am glad I didnt buy poly!

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so, everything back in place, arms in, all bolted together, there are lots of bolts throughout this subframe change, ALL are important, tighten, check, tighten, check, and a final tighten just in case.

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Underside view, all done, all that was remaining was to take of axle stands and onto wheels

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I had a bit of altering to do on the tracking, its about 95% done now with just some final tweaking, it drives in a straight line but there is still a little too much toe out, will be just about spot on in a couple of days




next project coming up, rebuilding a 1.3 variable vane turbo!
 
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