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Old 02-12-2020   #1
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2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

Hi Guys,

I need your expert help

A mystery knocking noise has appeared on my 2006 1.4 2 door Grande Punto (77k miles) which seems to be coming from the rear which has me puzzled and doesn't sound like any forum threads I've searched.

Firstly the car passed it's MOT on 31 October 2020 with no advisories so I'm assuming all important bits underneath were ok then.
Since then I've probably done 75 miles and I use it 2-3 times a week. I am in London in a speedhump area but don't do any break neck speed over them.

When the noise first appeared it sounded like a very gentle scrape with a knock at a certain point in time which would go on for a random length then stop - then start for a random length then stop - but we're talking just 3-10 seconds. The best I can describe it is if you stuck a playing card to a wheel and spun it, the card would make a noise each time it hit the frame at the same interval. It sounded rotational.


It would happen randomly for a varying length of time just once or twice during a drive.
There was no pattern when it would happen - accelerating, braking, turning or going over a speedhump.

Then it seems to have turned into more of a knock or just got a bit louder but is happening more often.

Today I removed the parcel shelf and went on a 4 mile return trip.
I'm certain it's coming from the rear as it's louder with parcel shelf removed and empty boot.
It still seems quite random but now more often. It also happens while driving slowly (20mph) on a good flat road.

No pattern going over speedhumps or rough patches of road.
The noise happened while going up/downhill, coasting, changing gear at 20-30mph.
I have given my exhaust the shake test by grabbing the pipe at the back and shaking it by hand - no knocking.
Manually bumping each corner doesn't present anything out of the ordinary.


The only thing I have done is got a replacement tyre and rotated them around 3 weeks ago. All tyres are the same 175/65/R15.
My drivers side rear tyre was replaced with a very good part worn - same make and type as the other side.

I put the rears swapping them diagonally to front (passenger side rear tyre to drivers front - replacement tyre to passengers front)
And the front tyres on the same sides to the rear.

If anything I would expect just some tyre noise after rotating them not any knocking noise - unless during the process I have done something which introduced the issue.

I'm planning on jacking up the car tomorrow to take a good look under the rear, front and check all wheel bearings.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

BTW: Is it easy to access the rear strut top mounts or lots of disassembly?

Thanks.

UPDATE:
I have checked all wheel bearings which seem fine - no wheel wobble or play in them.

All wheels spin freely - the passenger rear wheel has a bit of brake grip as it doesn't freewheel all the way to a stop but sometimes just stops about 2 seconds before the opposite side would.
I have done a heavy duty bounce test with me standing on the door sill and holding the internal hand grip then bouncing around - the drivers rear side does have a creak. Visual inspection up the strut both look ok and nothing out-of-place on the visible lower part of the mount.
The springs look ok as do both lower bushes - they look aged but complete and again nothing out-of-place.
The drop links don't have any play in them and the passenger side one is nice shiny silver so must be a replacement.

I took it up/down the road at 40mph and didn't hear the noise
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Last edited by Punto669; 02-12-2020 at 16:07.
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Old 02-12-2020   #2
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

Sounds like you have covered all the obvious things so I don't have much to add, but I did have some noise in my the rear of my car which I eventually attributed to the rear seats not being fully locked back in after being folded down. They need a huge whack back into place otherwise they rattle and squeak a bit... well, in my car anyway. In my other car I always had an unknown noise which turned out to be something under the boot carpet (something from the emergency toolkit) so worth pulling everything out of the boot and driving around a bit.

Has your GP got drum or disc brakes on the rear? Disc dust shield is worth a look if there is one. Not very familiar with drum brakes but I suppose they could be worth taking a look at, which may not have ever been done. Finally, I'd also take a look at the exhaust heat shield. Good luck!
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Last edited by oldmanhouse; 02-12-2020 at 19:21.
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Old 02-12-2020   #3
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

Quote Originally Posted by oldmanhouse View Post
Sounds like you have covered all the obvious things so I don't have much to add, but I did have some noise in my the rear of my car whi... Good luck!
Thanks for your reply.

You're absolutely right about the rear seat locking mechanism and I was looking at it this morning - from the boot when you look at the seat back where the locking pins are it just looks like the 'gap' is too big to be locked in place. So I released it and slammed it closed yanking both sides to make sure.

I removed everything from the boot except the spare wheel and tool holder. I did have doubts about it after my test drive and I'm going to try again tomorrow with the spare wheel removed.

I have drum brakes on the rear and was hoping not to have to open them up, but probably makes sense even just to inspect them as I've not been in there since owning the car.

I checked the exhaust heat shield which is mounted under the spare wheel well and it's nice and secure

My latest thought is engine mounts as the noise is there at slower speeds/some gear changes/slowing down uphill - but when I drove around faster didn't get any noise.

I'll have a look at those and re-visit suspension components again.
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Old 03-12-2020   #4
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

Are you sure the wheel nuts are tight. This is a classic noise of a wheel undoing!
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Old 03-12-2020   #5
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

Quote Originally Posted by OldEngineer View Post
Are you sure the wheel nuts are tight. This is a classic noise of a wheel undoing!
Thank you for your reply.

Yes I tightened them well, by hand using a long pole on the toolkit wrench.
When I was checking around each wheel yesterday they all seemed fine.
But I will check again tomorrow or Saturday depending on weather.
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Old 03-12-2020   #6
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

I had noise from the rear of my car,a Vectra for a good few months. I was convinced it was the rear exhaust boxes,even going to my fave garage who checked it out twice.
Turned out to be a drop link ...just a thought..
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #7
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

Quote Originally Posted by OldEngineer View Post
Are you sure the wheel nuts are tight. This is a classic noise of a wheel undoing!
Gold rosette for this man...!!!!

So I decided to take it for another spin around the block.
I gave it a bit of the beans here and there and the noise behaved pretty much the same as before but at times seemed a bit louder and for longer.

When I returned I decided to triple check the wheel nuts.....

Drivers front: all ok.
.
.
Drivers rear: all ok.
.
.
Passengers rear: all ok.
.
.
Passengers front I'm greeted by this.......
YES IT'S COMPLETELY UNDONE AND JUST LYING THERE

On closer inspection my locking nut has already jumped ship........




How?

I did up all the locking nuts first checking them twice before putting away the socket & holder.
Then the same with the rest of the nuts - cursing a few times as my arm was aching.

When I checked the wheel bearings all the wheel nuts looked fine - well they were definitely still there....

Thanks.
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Last edited by Punto669; 2 Weeks Ago at 22:21.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #8
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Stripped threads would be my guess


Youve not had the car long.. so its anybodys guess as to whats gone before


Show us the bolts.. they might be incorrect..

Ive attatched a pic of the locking bolts for comparison

If youve got plastic wheel trims.. did you install them correctly..

There is a possibility you pinched the trim up tight.. not the wheel..
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

Re.reading this:

You had a noise.. then swapped all the wheels around.. then 1 wheel came loose

I suspect this isnt the original issue.

P.S. The locking bolts are WEAK..

they dont tolerate over.torqueing

So I tighten the 3 steel bolts.. then nip.up the security one


Next question..

Did you tighten the 3 bolts with car in the air.. and spin wheel to ensure it spun true?

Its easy to get the wheel out of true when mounting..
I would recommend hand tight and a spin.. before lowering tyre so it has SOME weight

Torque.up
Then lower jack until free

All garages say check torque of bolts after 100 miles (after 100 metres will save you some grief) then again after some heat cycling through use.
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Last edited by varesecrazy; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:07.
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

Happy New Year to all and thank you for your replies.


Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Stripped threads would be my guess
Youve not had the car long.. so its anybodys guess as to whats gone before
Show us the bolts.. they might be incorrect..
Ive attatched a pic of the locking bolts for comparison
If youve got plastic wheel trims.. did you install them correctly..
There is a possibility you pinched the trim up tight.. not the wheel..
I have had the car 3 years now but in that time it's only had about 1-1.5 years of 'real' use. I only use it about 4 times a week averaging about 30 miles and even less during COVID19 - 1-2 shopping trips pw.

This is the locking nut set which came with the car:



These are the bolts: (one from the loose wheel/locking one from drivers front/one from the box)



All 3 upright:


The wheels are alloys.
Stripped threads on the bolts or the hub?

The only time I remember taking a wheel off is in NOV20 when my drivers rear went and I was driving on the spare for 3 weeks before getting a replacement. But had no issues.


Quote Originally Posted by varesecrazy View Post
Re.reading this:
You had a noise.. then swapped all the wheels around.. then 1 wheel came loose
I suspect this isnt the original issue.
P.S. The locking bolts are WEAK..
they dont tolerate over.torqueing
So I tighten the 3 steel bolts.. then nip.up the security one
Next question..
Did you tighten the 3 bolts with car in the air.. and spin wheel to ensure it spun true?
Its easy to get the wheel out of true when mounting..
I would recommend hand tight and a spin.. before lowering tyre so it has SOME weight
Torque.up
Then lower jack until free
All garages say check torque of bolts after 100 miles (after 100 metres will save you some grief) then again after some heat cycling through use.
Almost, sequence of events;
1. In first week of NOV20 I just jumped in the car to go shopping drove off slowly and there was a constant rumble noise. I pulled over walked round the car and my drivers rear tyre was flat. On closer inspection there was a small crack/tear in the sidewall bubbling (had been raining) when trying to inflate. I put on the spare and used for 3/4 weeks until I got a replacement.
2. I then rotated my tyres around - 2wd non-directional cross rotation.
3. With the wheel in the air I did up the bolts with the wrench until it just stopped turning any further.
4. I did rotate the front wheels while putting the bolts in and doing then up - but not the rears as the hand brake would have been applied.
5. With the tyre on the ground I tightened up the bolts (in diagonal) and rechecked them all.
6. I continued using the car as usual and after 2 weeks or so the noise appeared which got louder and more frequent - I took the car out more trying to diagnose the issue.
7. I then raised each wheel to check bearings and suspension components - at this point I was spinning each wheel a lot and checking for any wobble/looseness by trying to move the tyre in/out at various points in its circumference. Everything seemed fine - the passenger front drop link looked nice and shiny so must have been replaced and all bushings in good condition.

Well don't the conical bases of the bolts 'true up' a wheel satisfactorily on their own? When you have screwed all 4 in all the way hand tight with the wrench?

I did double check the bolts at some point after the noise started but it wouldn't have been 100 miles when the noise started, probably around 40.

Fingers crossed for puncture free motoring or any other reasons for having remove wheels for some time.

Thanks,
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Last edited by Punto669; 2 Weeks Ago at 16:03.
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

No problem

Odd that they still appeared tight after 40 miles.. but then went loose..

However : alloys need tighter botls than steels !!
I did have one incident like yours.. front left getting loose after a year or more.. the 1st car that I kept with alloys

I then realised how TIGHT they should be
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Re: 2006 1.4 Grande Punto - Strange knocking noise possibly from rear....

To be fair Alloys are really awkward compared to steel rims :

Steels fit on the rim of the hub centre.. hook an the mounting spike.. a foot at the base of the tyre..and you can get the 1st bolt in

Alloys loll about on the hub.. dont have a proper hole fot the spike..

I use 2 steel rods.. screwed into two of the threads

Lift wheel onto the 2 rods.. slide along to meet the heb

2 bolts in.. rods out.. final bolts in

Save 10 minutes per wheel
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Quote Originally Posted by Punto669 View Post
Happy New Year to all and thank you for your replies.



I have had the car 3 years now but in that time it's only had about 1-1.5 years of 'real' use. I only use it about 4 times a week averaging about 30 miles and even less during COVID19 - 1-2 shopping trips pw.

This is the locking nut set which came with the car:



These are the bolts: (one from the loose wheel/locking one from drivers front/one from the box)



All 3 upright:


The wheels are alloys.
Stripped threads on the bolts or the hub?

The only time I remember taking a wheel off is in NOV20 when my drivers rear went and I was driving on the spare for 3 weeks before getting a replacement. But had no issues.



Almost, sequence of events;
1. In first week of NOV20 I just jumped in the car to go shopping drove off slowly and there was a constant rumble noise. I pulled over walked round the car and my drivers rear tyre was flat. On closer inspection there was a small crack/tear in the sidewall bubbling (had been raining) when trying to inflate. I put on the spare and used for 3/4 weeks until I got a replacement.
2. I then rotated my tyres around - 2wd non-directional cross rotation.
3. With the wheel in the air I did up the bolts with the wrench until it just stopped turning any further.
4. I did rotate the front wheels while putting the bolts in and doing then up - but not the rears as the hand brake would have been applied.
5. With the tyre on the ground I tightened up the bolts (in diagonal) and rechecked them all.
6. I continued using the car as usual and after 2 weeks or so the noise appeared which got louder and more frequent - I took the car out more trying to diagnose the issue.
7. I then raised each wheel to check bearings and suspension components - at this point I was spinning each wheel a lot and checking for any wobble/looseness by trying to move the tyre in/out at various points in its circumference. Everything seemed fine - the passenger front drop link looked nice and shiny so must have been replaced and all bushings in good condition.

Well don't the conical bases of the bolts 'true up' a wheel satisfactorily on their own? When you have screwed all 4 in all the way hand tight with the wrench?

I did double check the bolts at some point after the noise started but it wouldn't have been 100 miles when the noise started, probably around 40.

Fingers crossed for puncture free motoring or any other reasons for having remove wheels for some time.

Thanks,
I had this happen to me last year, couldn't believe it and was doubting myself. My issues was and I do not recommend, I was getting tired of the rusty looking bolt heads, so thought I would spray paint them gloss black,even though it would be short.lived I just wanted to do it, I believe the it happened as it was on the taper and just loosened up. In the end I had to get new bolts and bought some wheel caps instead. Also my torque wrench appears.to have been out so not tightening as much, so again check your torque wrench
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