Technical The engine turns over but no start

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Technical The engine turns over but no start

paullap

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This is a weird one, This is a 2007 GrandPunto Duralogic, the doors lock and unlock with the key, when I put the key in and try to start the car nothing happens, if I turn it off and try again, the engine then cranks for about 5 seconds but will not start.

codes
U 1705-87 Receiver Radio (NRR)
B1001-13 Key transponder
U0426-68 Electronic key


I am thinking this could a can Bus issue.

I have multiscan and I would like to know if there is a pid to see if the module is reading the key, I am not sure what module looks for the transponder and then sends the message to the ecu to allow it to start.

Any help please


Paul
 
Hi Charlie, Thanks for taking the time, I am not sure about the light, I will have a look this morning.

Battery is good and the earth checked. If i get time I will check to make sure the can bus system is working, I would think it is as there would be more no communication codes,

It is strange that the key on the first turn to try to crank does nothing and turn of and try again it cranks for about 5 seconds every time as if the ecu is waiting for a signal


I will be back later


Paul
 
Hi Charlie,

Ignition on immobiliser light (car /Padlock) is on.

turn the key to crank, no crank and the mobiliser light stays on.

But if I put the key in quick and I turn the key fast before the immobiliser light comes on it cranks for a few seconds until the immobiliser light comes and then it stops cranking, it never tries to start so probably no spark or injectors I would think.

If I push the key in and out fast and try to crank it does crank a bit longer, But the is probably delaying the key signal.

I also put another battery on and an extra earth from the battery negative to the engine block and the ECU.

I am sure it has something to do with the key.


Look forward to your comments


Paul
 
Hi , Not sure about the fuel pump, And yes just one key, I think I will get someone I know in the car key game to some and have a look at it for me, I will let you know how I get on.


Paul
 
Hi!
I don't think it's a immobiliser problem, remember that the dualogic controller won't let you start the motor if it thinks certain conditions are not met. (No hydraulic pressure, clutch not released, gearbox not in neutral, brake pedal not pressed.)
It could have a very bad outcome.
BRs. Kjeld
 
Hi I have done a lot of work on the duralogic systems, I have checked all perimeters and they all look fine and no fault codes, a new clutch and arm as this is where the problem started but it always would start.
So i am sticking with the key for now.

Thanks


Paul
 
I have had the Key checked now, That was fine, I have can signals on pin 6 and 14, so the can system is not down, Not sure where to go now.


Paul
 
Did you check the immobilizer parameters on both ECU and body computer? AFAIK on some fiats it's the body computer that reads your key and sends the code to the ECU via CAN. So be sure to check the parameters on body computer if you haven't already.

Did the immobilizer light went out after getting the key checked? Maybe the code is correct but the ignition switch is the problem and can't read the code from the key.
 
Paullap - you said that issue begins after you replaced clutch and arm? If yes, then it looks that you:
1, forgot to plug some connector
2, accidentaly damaged some wiring during clutch replacement process
And maybe thats why you received those error codes...
 
Hi Damage wiring is a good shout, I need to spend some more time investigating.


Paul
 
Please double check main ECU connectors, but also whole cabling which is going to interior through firewall. Maybe during clutch replacement this cabling was pulled to engine bay and that caused wrong connection under steering wheel or somewhere...hard to say...I dont expect that some sensor isnt plugged because it will cause error code about it. This is related to ECU connection between ignition module, its IMO. Bit of course it can be also faulty IMO or circuit inside key...but check cabling is cost free ;-)
 
Last edited:
Hi Rado, Thanks for the help, I have had the key checked, I did a bit of playing with multiscan yesterday trying to find where the pid is for the transponder signal, in the body control module
Key identification Not Valid
Key Transponder Not Valid
Engine ecu Faulty
They do not look correct to me,
I really could do with a wiring diagram for the can system if anyone has one.
I will start looking at the wiring tomorrow as the car is at work.



Paul
 
""""Update"""""" I have now swapped over from a known good running car semi auto ,
E.C.U.
B.C.M
Instrument Cluster
ignition Key and barrel

The car starts and runs fine, So I now know that the wiring is fine.

So it has to be a software problem in either E.C.U. B.C.M. Or the instrument cluster, like key immobiliser information, as the padlock light stays on on the original set. I just need to find out what should be stored where, I am not sure if I can reprogram using the key to restore the information that is missing of maybe a reset procedure, I am not worried if it all goes wrong I just want to see if I can sort it, The easy way is to replace it all from the scrappy , But I would like to have a go at sorting it, I have Multiscan and Alfa OBD.

Any Ideas?


Paul
 
Do you have chance to swap each unit one by one? To find out which is faulty?
 
You've tried all the keys and none of them worked. Its memory has probably become corrupted and reprogramming may not be successful. I believe that there are independent locksmiths and garages who have Fiat specific tools for coding the keys. If it's a hardware fault, it can be repaired but obviously you've already researched that option. A new ECU ,bcm would cost a fortune from Fiat so that's not an option usually. If you can find a whole set from scrapyard with all the keys ,then that's your best option or at least it should be fully functional that new keys can be coded to it.
 
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