Hi Guys,

Recently bought a used fiat punto grande 1.4L that has low mileage (36k miles), as he owners grandad only used it occasionally. The car had hardly been used so the owner jump started it and drove it for 3hrs home with no issues after that.

When using the car at home noticed that it required anywhere from 2-6 tries to start the engine; it would start engine every time but when reaching resting revs the engine would cut out.

I took it to an MOT garage who ran diagnostic and said engine temp was coming up, also noticed that the coolant level was sitting ever so slightly below the minimum level. I boiled and cooled ~300mL water (to remove impurities) and topped up to the max level (may be a tad over).

The car then started first time, next morning needed 5/6 tries, then I opened and closed the coolant cap coming back from work on 3rd trip (no liquid added or taken) and it started first time.

There seems to be a link between opening and closing coolant and it starting first time. Although, when at home I do park on a curb so maybe the sensor misreads the coolant level and relays back to CPU, OR maybe the temperature sensor is just malfunctioning altogether?

I have done a quick earthing test, no issue there as same result. The alternator has also been changed so doubt this is the issue.

If anyone can shed any light I would be really grateful, thank you. Otherwise seems a great car to drive etc.

Cheers

cbooth5 said:

Recently bought a used fiat punto grande 1.4L...

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OK. Which one? The 8-valve, 16V turbo, non-turbo. T-Jet, Starjet, MultiAir...?

cbooth5 said:

...only used it occasionally. The car had hardly been used so the owner jump started it...

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So battery was/is bad (discharged).

cbooth5 said:

and drove it for 3hrs home with no issues after that.

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"No issues"? Need for jump starting is an issue. "Car used occasionally" = abused/neglected car.

cbooth5 said:

When using the car at home noticed that it required anywhere from 2-6 tries to start the engine; it would start engine every time but when reaching resting revs the engine would cut out.

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Multiple things can cause this. Bad temperature sensors (coolant and MAP) and pressure (MAP) sensor, crankshaft (TDC) sensor, bad valve clearances, bad earthing (main and/or small wires), bad connections, bad battery, ignition system, fuel system (including EVAP), vacuum leak (intake).

cbooth5 said:

I took it to an MOT garage who ran diagnostic and said engine temp was coming up,...

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Physically going up, or "just" readings (via diagnostic interface)?

cbooth5 said:

also noticed that the coolant level was sitting ever so slightly below the minimum level. I boiled and cooled ~300mL water (to remove impurities) and topped up to the max level (may be a tad over).

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To remove what? A lot of pure water evaporated during boiling tap water and now you have more impurities there in the system. Next time use proper distilled/deionised/demineralised one. Or top up with coolant (best way).
Coolant level below minimum = neglected car. Or there is an issue, leak and/or airlock (system needs bleeding). Or worst case scenario - it's not air, but exhaust gases...and that explains also a missing coolant in the first place.

cbooth5 said:

The car then started first time, next morning needed 5/6 tries, then I opened and closed the coolant cap coming back from work on 3rd trip (no liquid added or taken) and it started first time.

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Maybe air is fooling the coolant temperature sensor. Or coolant is going into cylinders and sparkplugs are wet.

cbooth5 said:

There seems to be a link between opening and closing coolant and it starting first time.

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It is not normal condition for sure...

cbooth5 said:

Although, when at home I do park on a curb so maybe the sensor misreads the coolant level and relays back to CPU, OR maybe the temperature sensor is just malfunctioning altogether?

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There's no level reading. But fluid must reach the sensor(s) -> so, airlocks, maybe.
Or yes, it's just the faulty sensor. Or "just" wiring, plugs. Hopefully.

cbooth5 said:

I have done a quick earthing test, no issue there...

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"Quick" may be not enough to really test it.

cbooth5 said:

The alternator has also been changed so doubt this is the issue.

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But car was almost like abandoned. Needed jump starting. What about battery?! Charge it outside the car just to be sure.

cbooth5 said:

If anyone can shed any light I would be really grateful, thank you.

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Car needs some serious maintenance. But it's salvageable, 99% sure.

Hi and welcome

Fit a good known battery.. then see what occurs

Low coolant level is never a great sign.. but just watch it..
If it still drops.. you have a problem

So.. alternator..
Did you cange this or is it a historical reference??

Charlie

cbooth5 said:

Hi Guys,

Recently bought a used fiat punto grande 1.4L that has low mileage (36k miles), as he owners grandad only used it occasionally. The car had hardly been used so the owner jump started it and drove it for 3hrs home with no issues after that.

When using the car at home noticed that it required anywhere from 2-6 tries to start the engine; it would start engine every time but when reaching resting revs the engine would cut out.


The car then started first time, next morning needed 5/6 tries, then I opened and closed the coolant cap coming back from work on 3rd trip (no liquid added or taken) and it started first time.

There seems to be a link between opening and closing BONNET and it starting first time.
If anyone can shed any light I would be really grateful, thank you. Otherwise seems a great car to drive etc.

Cheers

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IT does sound like you are taking the correct approach with this 'new' car

Check all levels.. is a must.. until you are sure its 'leak.tight'

Are you using it much nowadays?

Apologies, it is the 8 valve 1.4L non-turbo punto grande I believe



Physically going up, or "just" readings (via diagnostic interface)?

That was just diagnostic reading that the mechanic picked up yes



Maybe air is fooling the coolant temperature sensor. Or coolant is going into cylinders and sparkplugs are wet.

I debunked this theory by opening and closing the cap, then had to try 5 times to start this morning! So definitely something strange going on


There's no level reading. But fluid must reach the sensor(s) -> so, airlocks, maybe.
Or yes, it's just the faulty sensor. Or "just" wiring, plugs. Hopefully.


Thanks, think I will take it back to the garage and hopefully identify the root cause

varesecrazy said:

IT does sound like you are taking the correct approach with this 'new' car

Check all levels.. is a must.. until you are sure its 'leak.tight'

Are you using it much nowadays?

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Great yes basics first! I use it to commute approx. 30 mins each way to work each day, the mornings it is sluggish to start, but on a hot day after work often starts first time now an impovement none the less

Are you sure just opening the bonnet isnt all that your 'reset technique' is actually achieving..

Or even opening the drivers door..

Try and narrow down what ACTUALLY makes the difference.. I dont think 'system pressure ' will do anything..(its been parked for hours.. so will be cold )

But youve gone through a chain of events before you climb back in and restart

Cartainly a bit odd though

IDEA: my old estate car flagged up 'low coolant' it was an error.. but am wondering if the grande has such a sensor..


But again.. I would try a good known battery 1st
(actually.. the crank..wait 1 minute.. then crank again)
Could point to battery.. you have enlivened it by eorking it.. and warmer weather will also boost its output

Good luck.. do let us know what occurrs

Once again, one have to start on GOOD bases !

Example: you open the door: some lights comes ON, maybe you turn the contact ON aswell and the blower comes ON, or the radio, etc. Then you pull the trigger to open the bonnet, get off the car, open the coolant cap, close it and return to your seat; Than th engine starts @ first try ! During all that time, the battery had the opportunity to "wake-up" properly and its chemical process is now able to provide what the engine needs to start ... This would be even more sensitive with a weakened battery.
I would put all the chances on my side: proven good battery, tested earthing, no obvious moisture everywhere, etc.
Then , try to take notes of what happend when, after doing this or that ... as sugested

Sure you'll find out, BRs, Bernie

cbooth5 said:

Great yes basics first! I use it to commute approx. 30 mins each way to work each day, the mornings it is sluggish to start, but on a hot day after work often starts first time now an impovement none the less

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Do let us know how it goes

Bernievarian said:

Once again, one have to start on GOOD bases !

Example: you open the door: some lights comes ON, maybe you turn the contact ON aswell and the blower comes ON, or the radio, etc. Then you pull the trigger to open the bonnet, get off the car, open the coolant cap, close it and return to your seat; Than th engine starts @ first try ! During all that time, the battery had the opportunity to "wake-up" properly and its chemical process is now able to provide what the engine needs to start ... This would be even more sensitive with a weakened battery.
I would put all the chances on my side: proven good battery, tested earthing, no obvious moisture everywhere, etc.
Then , try to take notes of what happend when, after doing this or that ... as sugested

Sure you'll find out, BRs, Bernie

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Thank you Bernie.

Good points, I have tried to think of any correlation between what I have done on the 'good days' but honestly there is absolutely no correlation at all.

There's also no waiting time, to open the bonnet, check coolant etc. it will often just start!

On the whole, out of ten how reliable have you guys found fiat punto grande 1.4L 8V 2009s to be? I am hoping when this is salvaged it will be good for years. Will let you guys know the outcome next week when the garage phones me back! Cheers

And Thanks Charlie,

I was told the alternator was changed recently and this is indeed in the logbook and have seen the new alternator under the bonnet.

Thanks everyone. Will feed back what the root issue is to help anyone in future with a similar problem

cbooth5 said:

...On the whole, out of ten how reliable have you guys found fiat punto grande 1.4L 8V 2009s to be? I am hoping when this is salvaged it will be good for years...

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Those are the relatively "calm" version of the Grande and as it, should have been treatened not too rough, which is good. But stil, it has 11 years on the clock and if it was neglected it woud be almost good for the scrappy :-(. But if it has been properly maintained it should become your workhorse and bring smile on your face -they are pretty nice cars- for many years until "they" ban them off the roads.

Have it inspected for any HUGE and costly potential issue, fix it if in your budget and be happy with your GP !!

BRs, Bernie

Hi guys,

Phoned the garage back and they said the diagnostic pointed to a faulty temperature sensor, the sensor was changed and the car is still giving the same result.

I'm going to pick up Saturday so we will see what the deal is then

Whilst the issue is not preventing me from driving to and from work each day, it it pretty inconvenient to sometimes start up 5-6 times before running and not cutting when started up!

My plan is to wait until lockdown to blow over and then my dad who knows a fair bit about cars is going to look at spark plugs, connections, fuel line, basically anything that looks a bit suspicious underneath the bonnet or needs to be inspected

If I find the problem I will come back here to post to help another person!

Cheers

Ask the garage which temperature sensor they tried..

Then you can at least put that one to the bottom half of the 'to do list'

Thanks! I did ask which one and the guy only charged me £20!? - gave him £40 as he did a fair bit of work found that it was an ECU problem after all.

This is usually a £300-400 job but if you are able to find an ECU kit online (for £100) then you can save yourself £100-200

Planning to order this kit and a relative will fit and reset ECU, failing that will get a garage to fit thanks for all your help guys. Hope this issue helps someone in future.

cbooth5 said:

Thanks! I did ask which one and the guy only charged me £20!? - gave him £40 as he did a fair bit of work found that it was an ECU problem after all.

This is usually a £300-400 job but if you are able to find an ECU kit online (for £100) then you can save yourself £100-200

Planning to order this kit and a relative will fit and reset ECU, failing that will get a garage to fit thanks for all your help guys. Hope this issue helps someone in future.

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Err..

How have you arrived at the ECU conclusion?

Spend an hour reading all of the yellow headers at top of Grande section..

There are at least 4 things that can effect the temperature correlation with running..

Poor connections are well up on that list

Battery, alternator, ignition process, spark plugs, temperature sensor, earthing connection has all been ruled out.

All other factors (poor connections etc.) have researched online and will be checked over a relative first, which will take a weekend, failing that we will order ECU kit and reset.

Throttle body checked to make sure it's working right and cleaned up?

I'd be looking at things like this as there many things that could be the fault before looking into the ECU

Crank and cam sensors failing another

You managed to get the car to start?

UltraFiatboy said:

You managed to get the car to start?

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cbooth5