Hi
Recently my wife’s 2007 GP 1.4 Auto refused to start.
The dash panel lights up as normal, but on turning the key to the start position there is no action, and cannot hear a click of the starter relay.

I have carried out various inspections and changes as follows:

1] Checked battery cleaned terminals and cables.
Result: No Change

2] Replaced battery with a new one from my son’s car.
Result: No Change

3] Removed battery, battery tray and checked the various earth points and cables. Found poor cable condition on main earth cable between body and gearbox.
Action: Purchased two new cables to replace and fitted after cleaning contacts.
Result: No Change

4] Removed starter motor relay and swapped over with identical one.
Result: No Change

5] Removed starter relay and wired the switch terminals.
Result: Starter motor came to life and car moved forward. Dash Panel indicates car is in neutral however it is clearly not in neutral? Earth to starter must be good.

6] Put a jump cable across from earth on battery to engine.
Result: No Change

7] Checked Gearbox oil and topped up.
Result: No Change

I am a competent DIY mechanic, but I do not own the computerised diagnostic tools.

Please help, where to next?

I was about to be "funny" and ask if the gearbox was in Neutral og Park... otherwise I am guessing it would never start.

Can you see what gear (or N or P) you are currently in when you turn the key (before trying to start)? Maybe you are in neutral og park but the car doesn't know.

Does the gearbox pump run when you open the drivers door?

Agreed.. the gearbox may be preventing the engine starter operation

Does it lose any hydraulic fluid? In (7) above, gearbox oil or actuator hydraulic fluid? Did the right stuff go in the right place?

Does the actuator hydraulic pump run normally (healthy motor noise), when the driver's door is opened, or does it
a) sound a bit sick?
b) not run at all?

Does the car have any problems with rear lights (especially brake lights)?

Did you check out the earth cable to the actuator?

Was it working normally, with (fairly) smooth gearchanges, or had it recently started to jerk when changing gear?

Cars with dualogic need acknowledgement from the robot controler to crank the engine ...


BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Hi
The gear lever and dash indicator were in neutral before attempting to start the car.

CentauroV10 said:

Hi
Recently my wife’s 2007 GP 1.4 Auto refused to start.
The dash panel lights up as normal, but on turning the key to the start position there is no action,

Dash Panel indicates car is in neutral however it is clearly not in neutral?

I do not own the computerised diagnostic tools.

Please help, where to next?

Click to expand...

Does the lever position and dash respond reliably..?

Youve not mentioned the pump.. perhaps because you havent heard it..?

No response from gearbox might be enough to disable starter circuit


Let us know where you are based.. the Forum has a diagnostic equipped members section

Charlie

I'm afraid MES won't tell much about the dualogic controler.

The starter relay coil is positive powered by the key switch AND grounded by the dualogic controler (acknowledgement). Either one side be missing, the starter won't crank ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

It's the "Neutral but not in Neutral" bit that is most puzzling.
MultiECUScan will be able to read the Dualogic error codes, but without it there are still some diagnostic steps you can take. Here's a couple.

Is pump motor running when you open the door? No=Failed relay or pump motor.

As Charlie said, does it select N, 1 and 2 (gearbox AND dash) with the ignition on but engine not running?
If yes (gear changing noises with no other strange noises, and display changes) then it's electrical - check connectors and fusebox. No=actuator fault, report back for more steps.

Many Thanks I thought it maybe a good idea so have bought one just waiting for delivery.
Then we can hopefully see all the gremlins and deal with them accordingly.

Hi
I do not hear any pump as you suggest just total silence.

Gear indicator on dash shows neutral, however if you shift the gear selector with the ignition on there is no change on the dash panel.

Try this...

Find a piece of wood (similar to a piece of broom handle) and a hammer.
Open bonnet. Close driver's door.
Sharply tap the battery tray with the wood & hammer. Don't break anything!
Immediately open the driver's door.
(Easier with 2 people, but possible with 1)

Any noise from pump?
Yes=sticky pump. Report back.
No=fuse, relay or other electrical problem.

Pump provides hydraulic pressure to the 'robot'

What oil did you top up ?

The metal gearbox casing?

Or the plastic tank?

The oil pump (electro-bomba) is fuse protected, and I believe it's a brush type motor :-(, so yes, it can (and will) fail. Good news is the motor is availale as separate component, no need to buy an expensive pump assembly ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Bernievarian said:

The oil pump (electro-bomba) is fuse protected, and I believe it's a brush type motor :-(, so yes, it can (and will) fail. Good news is the motor is availale as separate component, no need to buy an expensive pump assembly ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Click to expand...

However it’s the same pump used in the ferrari F1 gearbox which would normally cost a £1000, but 360 owners have found the cheaper fiat and alfa pumps pushing prices up quite a bit.

MrMogensen said:

I was about to be "funny" and ask if the gearbox was in Neutral og Park... otherwise I am guessing it would never start.

Can you see what gear (or N or P) you are currently in when you turn the key (before trying to start)? Maybe you are in neutral og park but the car doesn't know.

Click to expand...

Hi
The Dash Panel shows vehicle is in neutral, however when I jumped the starter through the relay slot the car moved forward, so it can not be in neutral?

Many Thanks

Les

irc said:

Try this...

Find a piece of wood (similar to a piece of broom handle) and a hammer.
Open bonnet. Close driver's door.
Sharply tap the battery tray with the wood & hammer. Don't break anything!
Immediately open the driver's door.
(Easier with 2 people, but possible with 1)

Any noise from pump?
Yes=sticky pump. Report back.
No=fuse, relay or other electrical problem.

Click to expand...

Hi
Thanks for the message.
Re Hammer and broom handle I take it this is carried out with the ignition on?

I will try and get back to you.

Thanks
Les

irc said:

Does it lose any hydraulic fluid? In (7) above, gearbox oil or actuator hydraulic fluid? Did the right stuff go in the right place?

Does the actuator hydraulic pump run normally (healthy motor noise), when the driver's door is opened, or does it
a) sound a bit sick?
b) not run at all?

Does the car have any problems with rear lights (especially brake lights)?

Did you check out the earth cable to the actuator?

Was it working normally, with (fairly) smooth gearchanges, or had it recently started to jerk when changing gear?

Click to expand...

Hi
Topped up plastic bottle.

Les

CentauroV10 said:

Hi
Topped up plastic bottle.

Les

Click to expand...

Hi
Rear Brake light was faulty changed bulb and now working.

The gear box was acting up recently wouldn't select properly from Neutral to reverse or drive.

Earth cable to actuator? Is this the one that runs from battery to body to gear box?
If so this was found to be faulty and replaced with new and cleaned terminals.

Best Regards

Les