Bernievarian said:

The lights stalk is designed so you can't (mechanically) switch ON both relays

Click to expand...

Yes, it's true. Despite that, I noticed the Alfa Romeo Mito (has H7 bulbs) light stalk has the same function with the Grande Punto's, and you can light both beams simultaneously... The Bravo's stalk on the other hand has to be pushed forward to light both beams simultaneously...

Bernievarian said:

BUT when you make a "light call" (appel de phares in french) both relays are powered (if your dipped beam was already ON). In this case you got ALL ligths ON and the BCM doesn't complain, does it ?
BTW, you could also install the diode @ the stalk or @ the BCM !!

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Click to expand...

No, the BCM does not complain. What is the stalk? Sorry for my English. It is not my native language...

* Also, a very important detail regarding this new configuration, while installing the diode and doing all the above you mentioned, when I have my lights off and I make a "light call" to someone, will both beams light up, or just the high beam will light up?

P.S. This last sentence above is the real reason why I'm very curious about all this, and why I search it so extensively... H4 lighting unfortunately is so complicated...

rxbkrs said:

What is the stalk? Sorry for my English. It is not my native language...

* Also, a very important detail regarding this new configuration, while installing the diode and doing all the above you mentioned, when I have my lights off and I make a "light call" to someone, will both beams light up, or just the high beam will light up?

(

Click to expand...

The stalk is the "switch".
All lights will come ON as soon as you have the high beam relay activated.

BRs, Bernie

Bernievarian said:

The stalk is the "switch".
All lights will come ON as soon as you have the high beam relay activated.

BRs, Bernie

Click to expand...

I was hoping with all that, that only the high beam would turn on when I make a "light call"... Can that be done? I mean, can something be done to the car's relay for that to happen? Or, do I need another relay?

P.S. All this will determine:

a. If I will buy the aftermarket headlamps, or

b. If I will take my stock headlights for a projector installation...


To be honest, I prefer a. as a solution, despite the higher cost because of it's aesthetics and it's practicality (separate high beam bulb is more instant to make a light call). But only if all this above works...

With the original configuration, either the dipped OR the high beam can be activated at a time (being a twin filaments bulb or a twin bulbs system).
If the dipped (low) beam is ON, pushing the stalk lever toward the dashboard will swap the ligths to high beam, turning the low beam OFF.
If the dipped beam is ON, pulling the stalk lever toward the driver ("light call") will turn the high beam ON, without switching the low beam OFF.
If the dipped beam is OFF, pulling the stalk toward the driver will turn ON the high beam ONLY.
The difference between pushing or pulling the stalk reside in a built-in resistor so the BCM understands the driver's wish.
The only way for you to differentiate both commands would be to derivate the signals (from high and low beams) from the incoming wires @ the BCM, process them through some logic and inject the results in the BCM ... But that's another story !!

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Bernievarian said:

With the original configuration, either the dipped OR the high beam can be activated at a time (being a twin filaments bulb or a twin bulbs system).

Click to expand...

Yes, correct. This is exactly what I was talking about.. I just didn't explain it well.. Sorry for my English

Bernievarian said:

The difference between pushing or pulling the stalk reside in a built-in resistor so the BCM understands the driver's wish.

Click to expand...

Oh, ok.. Can this resistor be moved/changed, or can an another resistor be installed in?

Bernievarian said:

The only way for you to differentiate both commands would be to derivate the signals (from high and low beams) from the incoming wires @ the BCM, process them through some logic and inject the results in the BCM ... But that's another story !!

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Click to expand...

Ok, let's go to this... Can this be done easily, or is there complications? What can be done in this particular case?

P.S. This is exactly what I was looking for from day one, but I didn't express it well...

rxbkrs said:

This is exactly what I was looking for from day one, but I didn't express it well...

Click to expand...

So what do you want exactly ? Will you replace the existing lights ? Are you prepared (and skilled) for "sensitive" work ? What's the budget ? ...

Bernievarian said:

So what do you want exactly ?

Click to expand...

I want to differentiate both commands would be to derivate the signals (from high and low beams) from the incoming wires @ the BCM, process them through some logic and inject the results in the BCM (as you posted here: https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-pu...ms-dipped-beams-lit-together-2.html?p=4510441 ) Of course, if it's safe, reliable, etc.

Bernievarian said:

Will you replace the existing lights?

Click to expand...

Yes, I'm planning to replace my existing stock headlights with these aftermarket headlights (they take 2 bulbs, H1) on this post below:

https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/477143-grande-punto-full-beams-dipped-beams-lit-together.html?p=4505892

Once these new aftermarket headlights are installed, I will add a Xenon kit for it's dipped beams, and maybe a LED bulb for it's high beams.

* This is the reason why I asked all this regarding both bulbs lit at a time (when I'm driving alone at a rural road with no street lighting)

Bernievarian said:

Are you prepared (and skilled) for "sensitive" work ?

Click to expand...

To be honest, no, I personally do not know how to do this, but I will take it to a good car electrician that specializes in this particular field.. Quite frankly, they're very hard to find! It is not exactly an everyday day thing people do at a H4 car...

Bernievarian said:

What's the budget ? ...

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Approximately 100 - 200 Euros (without knowing how much do those cost)

rxbkrs said:

Yes, I'm planning to replace my existing stock headlights with these aftermarket headlights (they take 2 bulbs, H1)

Click to expand...

That will make things easyer since you will have to partly rebuild the wiring loom (harness).

Add a relay with the coil in // with the dipped beam BULB, wire the diode from the high beam relay (coil) to the dipped beam relay (coil) through the Normally-Open contact of the additional relay...

How it works:

Dipped beam ON

- the additional relay is activated and the diode is "in circuit". The diode blocks the current from dipped to high beam relays.
- high beam are turned ON: the BCM shuts the dipped beam's relay BUT the diode allow current from high to dipped beam relays.
- "light call": same as if the high beam were turned on.

Dipped beam OFF

- the additional relay is at rest and the diode is "out": NO lights (or side lights only)
- "light call": only the high beam relay gets ON, the additional relay's open contact prevent the dipped relay to be activated thru the diode.

A decent electrician would do that for you in half an hour...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Bernievarian said:

That will make things easyer since you will have to partly rebuild the wiring loom (harness).

Click to expand...

Because of my non-native English language, what does this mean exactly?

I mean, will that affect my wiring, or do I have to modify my wiring (from the wiring loom), or to couple the wiring looms (as they say this in my native language)? Sorry for the complication.. I don't know if the meaning is the same also in English

Bernievarian said:

Add a relay with the coil in // with the dipped beam BULB, wire the diode from the high beam relay (coil) to the dipped beam relay (coil) through the Normally-Open contact of the additional relay...

Click to expand...

Do the car electrician shops sell that type of extra relay? Regarding "with the coil in //" , what does this mean? Also, do you have a photo on how/what type that relay must be?

Bernievarian said:

How it works:

Dipped beam ON

- the additional relay is activated and the diode is "in circuit". The diode blocks the current from dipped to high beam relays.
- high beam are turned ON: the BCM shuts the dipped beam's relay BUT the diode allow current from high to dipped beam relays.
- "light call": same as if the high beam were turned on.

Click to expand...

If I understood correctly, the BCM does not get affected or programmed by this, and works the same way as now, giving the same commands as it does now.. Correct?

In the case of the "light call", what do you mean by as if the high beam were turned on?

Bernievarian said:

Dipped beam OFF

- the additional relay is at rest and the diode is "out": NO lights (or side lights only)
- "light call": only the high beam relay gets ON, the additional relay's open contact prevent the dipped relay to be activated thru the diode.

A decent electrician would do that for you in half an hour...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Click to expand...

So basically, the new relay that I have to install will be exclusively for my dipped beams, and my existing relay on for my high beams only? Besides the new relay, will I need also more parts to install?

P.S. This particular lighting upgrade may be more expensive and complicated than just installing a projector in the stock headlights, but it's totally worth it!

Modify the wiring:

- the original set is with H4s right ? Those bulbs have TWO filaments: dipped and high beam. They also need ground to turn ON, so their socket has THREE lugs (connections).
- the blocks you want to install are built around two H7s right ? Those bulbs have TWO connecting lugs each (ground and positive for the only filament).

So the standard loom (harness / bunch of wires) will NOT fit the new blocks and either you'll have to modify them OR there is a providen extra loom that would convert the 3 pins socket into 2 individual 2 pins sockets (why they say "couple the wiring").
This is the exact moment when you would install the extra relay, whose task will only be to insert the diode in between both original relay's coils in such a way that the dipped relay is activated by the high beam relay only if the dipped light switch is in ON position.

In addition to this relay and the diode, you'll have to connect a capacitor in parallel (that's what // means) with the coil to keep it activated the time of transition between dipped and high beam (remember the dipped relay WON'T be powered anymore by the BCM). The capacitor value will depend on the relay coil size and its charging current should be limited by a resistor to avoid current peaks when you'd turn the dipped ON (and so charge the capacitor).

The extra relay will drive the dipped relay coil only so a single inverter or even NO contact 5A relay would be WAY enough, the coil needs to be 12V ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Bernievarian said:

Modify the wiring:

- the original set is with H4s right ? Those bulbs have TWO filaments: dipped and high beam. They also need ground to turn ON, so their socket has THREE lugs (connections).

Click to expand...

Normally, yes, H4, but there is something a little different that I must mention in a quite big reply..

In Grande Punto, there is an 8-pin connector that plugs in from the car to the stock headlamps and aftermarket headlamps, that have this particular 8-pin plug:
________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________





________________________________________________________________


Check this video for around 15 seconds (I pointed out the minute it will start) to see the 8 pin wire that connects to the 8-pin plug I showed above:

[ame]https://youtu.be/dvDpkbVE4XQ?t=627[/ame]


Now, over here, see for 12 seconds where he removes the H4 bulb from its place:

[ame]https://youtu.be/dvDpkbVE4XQ?t=724[/ame]

_____________________________________________________________


What I mean to say by all this is that the car 8-pin wire (male) connects to the headlamp 8-pin plug (female), and from the 8-pin plug (female) there is a wire that has the the 3 pin connector for the H4 that we know.

Bernievarian said:

- the blocks you want to install are built around two H7s right ? Those bulbs have TWO connecting lugs each (ground and positive for the only filament).

So the standard loom (harness / bunch of wires) will NOT fit the new blocks and either you'll have to modify them OR there is a providen extra loom that would convert the 3 pins socket into 2 individual 2 pins sockets (why they say "couple the wiring").
This is the exact moment when you would install the extra relay, whose task will only be to insert the diode in between both original relay's coils in such a way that the dipped relay is activated by the high beam relay only if the dipped light switch is in ON position.

Click to expand...

No, not H7.. The aftermarket headlamps take H1 bulbs, but they still have the same 8-pin (female) plug the stock headlights have in order for the car plug (male) to connect to, as mentioned above.. That alone saves a lot of trouble I think...

Bernievarian said:

In addition to this relay and the diode, you'll have to connect a capacitor in parallel (that's what // means) with the coil to keep it activated the time of transition between dipped and high beam (remember the dipped relay WON'T be powered anymore by the BCM). The capacitor value will depend on the relay coil size and its charging current should be limited by a resistor to avoid current peaks when you'd turn the dipped ON (and so charge the capacitor).

The extra relay will drive the dipped relay coil only so a single inverter or even NO contact 5A relay would be WAY enough, the coil needs to be 12V ...

BRs, Bernie

If someone here helped You fix -or better, understand- your issue, hit the thanks icon @ bottom right corner, it's free and makes us feel helpy ;-)

Click to expand...

This too, is all plug and play? Also, the BCM won't recognize all this change, right? Also, if you can, can you please post pictures of the oil/relay and capacitor? I ask so I will understand it better...

The purple connector carries the signal from the relay/fuse board to the head light UNIT. Those signals are then internally dispatched to the corresponding bulbs/filament, so you don't have to worry about anything, it's just plug and play and the beams will do exactly what they used to do with the stock lights.

The modification you were asking for is done BEFORE that purple connector and isn't in any way plug&play !! I explained you (in detail) how to do it, I'm sorry but if you don't understand what I said I'm afraid you aren't skilled enough to DIY. Bring the car to a good auto electrician, together with my explanations and he should sort it out for you ...

BRs, Bernie.

Bernievarian said:

The purple connector carries the signal from the relay/fuse board to the head light UNIT. Those signals are then internally dispatched to the corresponding bulbs/filament, so you don't have to worry about anything, it's just plug and play and the beams will do exactly what they used to do with the stock lights.

The modification you were asking for is done BEFORE that purple connector and isn't in any way plug&play !! I explained you (in detail) how to do it, I'm sorry but if you don't understand what I said I'm afraid you aren't skilled enough to DIY. Bring the car to a good auto electrician, together with my explanations and he should sort it out for you ...

BRs, Bernie.

Click to expand...

Before the purple connector? Oh, ok. That's the part I got confused. I will not do this alone because I honestly don't know how to do it alone. I just didn't know that it would be so sophisticated compared to stock H7 or H1 headlights.. I will be taking the car to electrician to do this. The some things I said I didn't understand, that was because I didn't know what they meant in my native language. That's all. But anyway, all is good now.

Thank you for your time and for all your help on this! I will get this project started...