Hi,

I wonder if I can ask for your help.

My 2006 GPS 1.4 8v is suffering from water ingress into the rear light clusters - left one regularly has water sloshing about after periods of rain and now the right cluster has condensation inside it.

I know about the tailgate boot issues of split cables and split rear washer fluid feed tube as well as the tailgate shower.
I also have this issue which is waiting to be fixed but I haven't used my rear washer for about 8 months since investigating a non functioning indicator and finding the connector stained windscreen fluid blue.

My questions are;

1. Has anyone found how rainwater is getting into the light cluster unit?
2. How did you fix it? The water ingress and not just drilling a hole in the light cluster to let the water drain out.

I understand how washer fluid from a split tube has a direct path down the wiring loom through the connector and into the light cluster unit. If you're unlucky might also cause a short and half melted pin - like on mine.
But I haven't used my rear washer for ages since finding the split feed tube and the water is freshwater.

The square 'seal' (I use that term lightly) around the connector area which presses against the hole in the body when the light cluster is fitted is in good condition without any signs of water damage/penetration.
The rectangular rubber 'o-ring' (again I use that term lightly) around the bulb holder which presses against the cluster shell when the bulb holder is screwed in place is also in good condition without any damage or signs of water damage/penetration.
There is a gap (1-1.5mm) at the top between the front and rear sections of the cluster shell where presumably the two halves are joined/moulded together. But this is only about 2cm long down the side before both halves are smooth and consistent to the bottom.
With the light cluster fitted the drainage channel down the sides of the tailgate opening is almost non-existent and in medium to heavy rain the water will run over the side tab of the light cluster where the mounts are. But if there was a blockage high up which pushed water behind the light cluster I don't see anything which would give it a sideward path toward where the bulb holder mounts into the light cluster shell. Gravity would deal with it sufficiently.
The only possibility is if the area around the bottom of the cluster & body was completely blocked and the water flow was so heavy to cause water to build up completely filling the rear cavity and the pressure pushing it through the rubber 'o-ring'.

Next sunny day I will be investigating this 'gap' further at home with a sink full of water.

I know drilling a hole will let the water drain but it won't help with the condensation.

I've never experienced so many issues in the first 12 months of owning a car before and I'll put that down to bad luck rather than it being a Fiat...

Thx,

Mark

The outeer lens and the inner shell should be sealed at their join, all the way around. It is likely that yours are unstuck at some point and water will run along any edge and find a way in.

Get the lamp out, dried, and as dismantled as possible. Then carefully inspect the join. It needs re-sealing, perhaps all teh way, maybe only a bit. Depending on the hole, some glue might do it, or for larger gaps some clear silicone sealant. A good idea to try to determine if this is likely to spread and the two bits separate completely, and fix it once.

A small hole at the lowest point might also be an idea.

SUMMER UPDATE

So I inspected my light cluster really carefully and there are no faults with the plastic anywhere.
I was never happy with the 'press-on' seals so I sealed up the LHS light cluster along the seals and can't say I've noticed any further water or condensation inside the light clusters.

HOWEVER, caught in a recent downpour while entering the north circular my left indicator clicking noise started going fast then I got brake light (LHS?) warning messages on the dash.
These were intermittent and kept coming and going between periods of braking.

I think I am back to the same issue of water now just getting to the light cluster connector and causing a short and the tail light to flash dimly.

SO I am thinking of running patch leads to the light cluster metal 'traces' inside the unit bypassing the connector -
Sealing it up (and the connector terminals) from the outside world with silicone sealant -
At the other end soldering spade connectors to the leads and inserting these into the wiring loom connector THEN heat shrinking/silicone sealing the whole loom connector.
Messy and not very serviceable but should be waterproof.

That should do it - shouldn't it?

Or has anyone who has experienced something similar got a simpler effective solution?
(buy a German car replies will be ignored)

Thx.

You would be best keeping a connector somewhere accessible, to facilitate removal of the lamp, or changing a bulb. Changing a bulb with the lamp dangling against the car will be difficult and risk damaging the paint.

Firstly, the coloured outer lens will be bonded to the inner body of the lamp, and this joint is most likely where water gets in.
Then the lamp needs to be sealed to the body of the car. Usually a gasket, that distorts once fitted and can leak. Carefully remove it and turn it over, so the part originally facing the lamp now faces the car. This will often give lamp seals a new lease of life.

Then consider repalcing the lamp connector with something like this. https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.c...ctors/p-619-superseal-weatherproof-connectors
These are available with up to 6 connectors, so should be suitable, or use two if there are more than 6 wires. These things are used under the bonnet of most cars, and prove resistant to water ingress. Fiddly to assemble, btu give a good result.

Just a note with those connectors they are supposed to be done together with a. Special cirmping tool
Although you probably could do them with a normal pair a pliars

chris3234 said:

Just a note with those connectors they are supposed to be done together with a. Special cirmping tool
Although you probably could do them with a normal pair a pliars

Click to expand...

Oops! Forgot about them. £45!
https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.c...ing-tool-for-weatherproof-connector-terminals

I put mine together with an ordinary crimping tool. Could be done with normal pliers, or a tiny bit of solder, if you can get one to work outdoors, without melting all the adjacent wires.

A bargain at only £31.
Their connectors may be cheaper too.
Of course, Ebay may have some, connectors and tools, as might other suppliers.

chris3234 said:

Just a note with those connectors they are supposed to be done together with a. Special cirmping tool
Although you probably could do them with a normal pair a pliars

Click to expand...

Or bend over one of the tabs and flow the wire & gap beneath with solder and cut off the other tab.

I prefer soldering connections - using open crimp fittings which come with plastic/heatshrink covers.

Thanks for your reply.

portland_bill said:

You would be best keeping a connector somewhere accessible, to facilitate removal of the lamp, or changing a bulb. Changing a bulb with the lamp dangling against the car will be difficult and risk damaging the paint.

Click to expand...

Well the original connector has one terminal which has suffered a serious short and some meltage of the plastic around it. Hard wiring it and sealing up the bundle will still mean it is accessible just not as easily as intended.

portland_bill said:

Firstly, the coloured outer lens will be bonded to the inner body of the lamp, and this joint is most likely where water gets in.
Then the lamp needs to be sealed to the body of the car. Usually a gasket, that distorts once fitted and can leak. Carefully remove it and turn it over, so the part originally facing the lamp now faces the car. This will often give lamp seals a new lease of life.

Click to expand...

Yes I have checked it visually and by removing the light cluster and submerging it along all joints in water to see if any gets in. And none did during the test.
So the only 'entry point' is either through the compression seal between the bulb holder which screws off the back of the light cluster OR water is finding its way onto the wiring loom, running down the wiring loom to light cluster unit connector where it is causing a short or inside onto the tracks of the bulb holder and shorting there.
I have re-positioned the bulb holder to light cluster compression seal and sealed it up - since then I haven't seen anymore water in the cluster.

So by patching the connections into the tracks in the light cluster and sealing it all off - this is eliminated.

EDIT: Water in the light cluster doesn't seem to be a problem as just the glass part of the bulbs pokes through into it. The entry hole is raised anyway so water from inside the cluster can't get back out to the bulb holder. The inside of the light cluster plastic has gaps/cuts so any water/liquid goes to the bottom segment and you'd need to pour a lot in before it reaches a bulb hole.

portland_bill said:

Then consider repalcing the lamp connector with something like this. https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.c...ctors/p-619-superseal-weatherproof-connectors
These are available with up to 6 connectors, so should be suitable, or use two if there are more than 6 wires. These things are used under the bonnet of most cars, and prove resistant to water ingress. Fiddly to assemble, btu give a good result.

Click to expand...

Good idea! There are 4 wires and this looks like a good way to replace the now manky looking connector.

So I could fit a 4-way connector with patch leads to the loom and directly into the tracks on the bulb holder. I'll solder the wires to the pin connectors. (my preference anyway)

Then fit LED bulbs so the light cluster will probably never need to be removed again.
Finally seal up the original connector area and go around where the bulb holder joins the light cluster unit.


Sounds like a plan :slayer:

Which raises a new question - does using LED bulbs set off the dash bulb warnings?

LED bulbs will trigger bulb failure warnings as the current used is less. There are LED bulbs with resistors to combat this.

Even with only a little water inside, heat from the bulbs can evaporate some, which can then condense onto the glass bulb as it cools and run into the bulb holder.
A small drain hole might be helpful, as long as it can drain somewhere not harmful, and won't let water in from splashing.