Technical Front strut nuts

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Technical Front strut nuts

torniojaws

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I'm about to (completely) replace my almost teenage front struts on my 2008 1.2L GP, but there's a couple of things I'd like to clarify:

And yes, I know this isn't the exact strut assembly, but it's good enough for illustration purposes :)


topmount.jpg



1. In this picture. is nut #6 or nut #7 the nut that came with the shock absorber? I would imagine #6 , but just to be sure...


2. And is nut #7 any special type of nut (nyloc? hardened?), or can I just use a regular M12 for it?

Thanks! (y)
 
The new struts supplied to me by S4p had new top nuts (Number 7 on your illustration). These are the nuts you see under the bonnet which stop the strut falling out of the inner wing when you jack the car up. They are pretty ordinary looking nylock nuts - I didn't check what thread they are.

The number 6 nut is what secure the top mount to the damper rod and takes the force of restraining the spring. On my Panda these nuts were larger in outside diameter and had a step machined into their downward facing side to fit the top mount - you need to put them on the right way up! These were not supplied with the new struts but there was nothing wrong with the old ones and I just reused them.

The biggest problem I had was slackening both the no 6 and no 7 nuts. I gave up with my Allen key after it started to "corkscrew" and reverted to my air gun. Without this I don't thing I would have been able to do the job. - Man, they were super tight! - Not corroded mind you, just ridiculously tight.

PS my pinch bolts (2 and 3 in your pic) were severily corroded despite serious amounts of Plus Gas the top bolt on both sides snapped and were very stubborn to drift out afterwards. The bottom two did let me unscrew their nuts but the bolts were pretty solid in the hub casting - took some serious work with a punch and 2lb hammer to shift them. Others on the forum have reported that it's best to factor in new pinch bolts because even if they come out they are likely to be corroded. S4P (Shop4parts) supply all the bits you'll need and I find them and the quality of what they supply to be very good. I slaistered a bit of antiseize around when reassembling - and no, I do not have any interest in them apart from being a very satisfied customer.

Ooops, just noticed you are in Finland. Maybe Shipping will make S4p unviable for you?
 
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shop4parts is a bit dear in the shipping costs, but not too much :) Yes, I also opted to buy new pinch bolts, as they will probably be destroyed when I remove the old strut assembly.

In fact, I have all new parts for everything (I hope!), for both sides in the front:

  • Shock absorber (Sachs)
  • Spring (KYB)
  • Top mount + bearing (Lemförder)
  • 2 x Pinch bolts & nuts, from Autoworld UK
  • Spring plate (Optimal)
  • Dust cover & bump stop (Bilstein)
A lot of mix-and-match due to availability issues. My first choice would have been Bilstein for everything, but it's hard to find them. Autodoc supposedly has them, but I've read almost unanimous comments that Autodoc sends you random stuff instead of what you ordered. I'm not going to take chances of paying for Bilstein and receiving Monroe or Stark.


Since I have all new parts, I would like to use a brand new nut for the top mount, too :) Just unsure what kind of bolt it should be - hence the question :) I currently only have one nut for the top mounts - the ones that came with the shock absorbers. So I still need another nut there on both sides.
 
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I've got 4 of them :) Plus a big block of wood to hide behind, and a strong rope to put through the spring while compressing, so it can't fly all over the place. Should be safe enough. Would be nicer to have a hydraulic leg press though. Luckily all I need to do is to compress the new springs. The old struts will be just unbolted from the frame and disposed of.
 
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I've got 4 of them :) Plus a big block of wood to hide behind, and a strong rope to put through the spring while compressing, so it can't fly all over the place. Should be safe enough. Would be nicer to have a hydraulic leg press though. Luckily all I need to do is to compress the new springs. The old struts will be just unbolted from the frame and disposed of.
I'm not sure if it applies to shipping outside the UK but here, if you make a small donation to Forum funds you can claim an additional discount from S4p. Last time I ordered, as long as you were spending more than £25, shipping was free too. Might be worth exploring that for future reference. I order service parts for our Panda and Punto in one go and always qualify for free shipping Larger orders, like the struts and top mounts, always exceed the amount so qualify. (they have never sent me a wrong or different part to what I ordered.

The top mount nut is quite a specialized thing with it's machined "lip". I would guess may only be available from the dealer? Mine were both in absolutely A1 condition - I would have gained nothing by renewing them.

Compressing main suspension springs? always a bit of a high stress activity! I think you are saying you have 4 compressing tools? Is it your intention to use all 4 at the same time on the one spring? If you are that won't work because there is always going to be one which looses contact with the spring as you tighten another so this slack one will then slip around and get in the way. You might do it with 3 spaced equidistantly around the spring. The big thing to achieve when compressing these springs with these types of tool (ie. not the big single leg type with a plate at top and bottom - which are safer) is to avoid introducing a "banana" shaped curve into it which is what will encourage the compressors to slip. You need to have the compressors situated directly opposite each other to achieve this and tighten only a few turns at a time on each compressor to avoid putting too much of a bend into the shape of the spring which will also encourage the tool to slip. As you tighten keep watching all the time for it starting to "banana" and if it shows any tendency to do so then slacken right off and reposition the compressors to avoid it. Using 3 tools will, by the very nature of it, introduce a Banana shape so I wouldn't do it with 3. I've been doing it with 2 for over 50 years now and never had a problem but I always treat them with great respect and concentration. I have never forgotten the story told to us in college (way back in the '60's - happy days) of a spring getting loose in a workshop the instructor had worked in. Apparently it flew across the workshop and knocked over an oxygen cylinder which was waiting to be changed for an empty one in the welding bottle trolley. The valve in the top of the bottle was sheared off as the bottle hit a workbench on the way down and the pressure of the gas turned the bottle into a missile which skidded across the concrete workshop floor and shot out through the doors into the car park. Luckily, he told us, it came to rest without hitting anything, but the noise of the escaping gas was impressively frightening! So I would say. Have confidence. Use 2 compressors positioned precisely opposite each other. Tighten each in turn by just a small amount to avoid the spring bending very much and watch closely for the "banana effect". Most of all, don't keep on tightening if it starts to "banana".

I feel very confident doing this and wouldn't hesitate to undertake another, however there is always the unexpected. I did quite a big post recently when I did Becky's struts, springs, top mounts etc and someone then posted to the effect "what about if the old spring breaks when being compressed"? All I can say is it's never happened to me and I've done quite a fair few over the years. I don't think, using these simpler, cheaper, types of compressing tools that you can ever be 100% safe, but that's life isn't it? you just have to balance what you are prepared to risk and take reasonable precautions. Big blocks of wood and pieces of rope? fair enough but prevention is always better than anything else.
 
Pfffew Jock, you did it once again ;-) ! And it was great !

When working on McPherson's one have just to compensate the spring's pressure, NO need to compress it, just lock it in position (with the correct tool, being ONE or more side thread and clamps or rope and piece of wood). As soon as you feel the top nut getting load free, you'll be able to swap the damper... I remember having replaced them on a 128 just by lowering the car on its springs (yeah sitting on the wing was necessary), but that was a long time ago ...

Cheers, Bernie
 
When working on McPherson's one have just to compensate the spring's pressure, NO need to compress it, As soon as you feel the top nut getting load free, you'll be able to swap the damper... I remember having replaced them on a 128 just by lowering the car on its springs (yeah sitting on the wing was necessary), but that was a long time ago ...

Cheers, Bernie

And you too Bernie! All that "hot air" I wrote above and no mention of the fact that all you're trying to do is take enough compression off the top plate to allow safe removal. In fact you don't want to compress it any more than the minimum needed because it's not good for the spring and it increases the danger aspect. So thanks for that.

I too have heard of people tying them down with bike chains and other unlikely methods. I believe it takes at least two and preferably three people sitting on the wing to get enough compression on the spring! Of course I would never think of trying anything so risky?

Kindest regards
Jock
 
Got a response from ZF / Sachs:

The nut that comes with their strut is for the very top of the entire assembly, so inside the engine bay (#7 in my illustration). They also said that the lower nut (#6) can be reused from the old one.

So that's what I'll use. However, I'll also take pictures of the nut and post them here for reference, since I can't find any information about the nut. OE number, hardness rating, the shape, height, etc. I even sent a message to Fiat Finland, but they haven't responded yet.

I presume it is a generic nut, but there is a huge variety of MacPherson nuts in all shapes and forms. It doesn't seem to be the same across all MacPherson type struts, which is strange :p
 
Got a response from ZF / Sachs:

The nut that comes with their strut is for the very top of the entire assembly, so inside the engine bay (#7 in my illustration). They also said that the lower nut (#6) can be reused from the old one.

I presume it is a generic nut, but there is a huge variety of MacPherson nuts in all shapes and forms. It doesn't seem to be the same across all MacPherson type struts, which is strange :p

That's what I did. The new struts came with new top nuts (as you've found out) and the "stepped" nuts that secure the spring top plates were in absolutely A1 condition so I reused them. I'm not so sure about that second "stepped" nut being "generic"? I would think it may be manufacturer (or even model) specific as the "stepped" bit would have to be of just the right dimensions to fit the spring top plate, the dimensions of which would be to Fiat's spec?

The nuts - all four of them - were incredibly tight on mine. (The robot that did them up must have had a double portion of wheatabix that morning) I bent my allen key without them moving and had to resort to "The Hooligan" - my big, high torque, air impact wrench. Hope yours come undone more easily. Good luck.

I'm off now to take the gear selector housing off the top of my boy's Punto's gearbox so I can renew the copiously leaking selector shaft seal. "Fiddling" with gearboxes is probably my least popular activity. I've always found them to contain unwelcome "surprises" (which can be expensive and difficult/fiddly to sort out. I'm very grateful to the Guide in the Grande Punto section which has given me a good idea what to expect and alleviated, to some degree, my anxieties.

Regards
Jock
 
Okay, just got off the phone from the official dealership in Finland. They are indeed special nuts, specific to the car. The price is 8,20 EUR / 9.10 USD / 7.31 GBP per nut, and in my case takes about a week to arrive. It seems like they have no OE number, so it could be something you can only order from FCA directly, and is not sold elsewhere.


I know you could reuse the original ones, but I always prefer to use brand new parts, so there's no "but ifs" :) 16 euros ain't too bad for another 10 years of piece of mind, heh.
 
Got my nuts now :D

They do have an OE number: 55702312

Had a helluva time trying to find it using all manner of documents, sites, etc.

I see that for example Autodoc has it:
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/55702312



But the interesting thing in the Autodoc part is that the quality grade is given as 8, which I think means steel grade 8.8. However, the original nuts I have here have the number 10 on them, for steel grade 10.9.

Class 8.8 Medium carbon steel, quenched and tempered600 (psi)
Class 10.9 Alloy steel, quenched and tempered830 (psi)
Class 12.9 Alloy steel, quenched and tempered970 (psi)

thumb
 
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At first I wondered if you'd identified the correct part because of this but then I came across this video
Well, the part was identified and sold to me by the official Fiat service, so I would hope it is the correct one :)
 
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Reviving an old thread because I have encountered a problem regarding the special nut (#6 in the diagram).

The (new unused but still secondhand) maxpeedingrods (cheap China) coilovers are a different thread size for my 500.
so I’m wondering if the USA 500’s have a different thread size to the UK 500’s?
and if it is, which does part number 55702312 fit?
 
Reviving an old thread because I have encountered a problem regarding the special nut (#6 in the diagram).

The (new unused but still secondhand) maxpeedingrods (cheap China) coilovers are a different thread size for my 500.
so I’m wondering if the USA 500’s have a different thread size to the UK 500’s?
and if it is, which does part number 55702312 fit?

US..north american cars are @200 kg heavier than a Euro model
Bigger motors ;-)

So a change of suspension is likely :)
 
US..north american cars are @200 kg heavier than a Euro model
Bigger motors ;-)

So a change of suspension is likely :)
Does anyone have any suggestions how might I find the part number to a US/North American strut nut (or whatever the correct part name is)?
Or some way of confirming a larger thread diameter?

Someone suggested that 2014 Abarth (1.4L) might be a different shaft thread than the earlier (2007-) 500 (1.4L), if anyone knows where I can find out the informatio?

The thread on the ”new” coilovers are (I think) a 19mm thread, & it seems quite coarse compared to the standard 16mm (???) fine thread.
 
If you're having real troubles with this I'd guess almost any engineering company will be able to identify the thread and possibly supply a suitable alternative. I've got a couple almost on my doorstep and they are both happy to give "doorstep" advice at no cost. Of course if it's something that needs a bit of dismantling that's different - but doesn't sound the case here.
 
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